Jordan Peterson book 12 rules for life

[mitchellmckain (Scientist and Christian)]

@ARus

@Christy

Steve wasn’t kicked off, he just shook the dust from his feet because he couldn’t stand how we humor Creationists. I think you are confusing him with that other guy, Gregory.

You are right. I confused the two. Everything I said was about Gregory not sfmatheson.

Sorry about that!

[T_aquaticus (The Friendly Neighborhood Atheist)]

@Mervin_Bitikofer

I’d be curious what you’ve heard about that - since I’d be surprised to hear him put that forward as any sort of a commendable human attribute (beyond necessary self defense, etc. as many Christians quite readily allow for.)

For example:

U of T psychology professor Jordan Peterson has released a nearly two hour-long discussion with Camille Paglia, a professor at the University of the Arts in Philadelphia. In the video, Peterson says that men can’t control “crazy women” because men are not allowed to physically fight them.
. . .
“Here’s the problem, I know how to stand up to a man who’s unfairly trespassed against me and the reason I know that is because the parameters for my resistance are quite well-defined, which is: we talk, we argue, we push, and then it becomes physical. If we move beyond the boundaries of civil discourse, we know what the next step is,” he claims. “That’s forbidden in discourse with women and so I don’t think that men can control crazy women. I really don’t believe it.”

Regarding the necessity of the “underlying threat of physicality,” Peterson says, “If you’re talking to a man who wouldn’t fight with you under any circumstances whatsoever, then you’re talking to someone to whom you have absolutely no respect.”
Jordan Peterson: “I don’t think that men can control crazy women” – The Varsity

@Mervin_Bitikofer

But … yeah, there is so much toxicity dumped into so-called “masculinity” right now that … well, I know what sort of company he’s been keeping lately.

It isn’t so much masculinity as it is a specific internet community that is quite toxic (i.e. incels, anti-feminism). He is quite popular in this community which fairly or unfairly has tarnished his image.

Peterson has also gone through some tough times, including a dependence on benzodiazepines. I’m not saying this as an assassination on his character since none of us are perfect, but I think it does provide some context for his state of mind over the last few years. I’m sure we all have regrets about ideas we have had during darker times in our lives.

I have a lot of empathy for Peterson, and I can see how certain dark corners of the internet latched onto him. The 12 ideas he has now are pretty solid, if not somewhat mundane. At the same time, most self-help books are kind of mundane in that fashion.

[rsewell (All Truth is God's Truth)]

@Christy

He is popular because that brand of manly man cheerleader is popular with a certain set of young men who are less than successful in attracting a woman. Or at least the kind of woman they imagine should exist to meet their manly man ideals.

That is a very broad brush. It’s not all incels.

[Christy (Christy Hemphill)]

@rsewell

That is a very broad brush. It’s not all incels.

I said: “a certain set of [young men who are less than successful in attracting a woman].”
“A certain set of” very clearly delineates “not all.” The relative clause was restricted not unrestricted. Good grief.

[HRankin (Hillary Rankin)]

A friend is finishing it right now. they said, the book itself is great, for people who needed it at that time, but because all that has transpired since it came out, it’s kind of a bummer to read through today’s lens.

[HRankin (Hillary Rankin)]

I’m going to unlist this, just because it’s kind of devolving into discussing him as a person and not the content of the book, although arguably hard to separate the two.