Would anyone would like to examine John beginning with Chapters 14, 15 and 16? I would like to know everyone’s thoughts on this, if possible. I think by examining who could have made the statements attributed to Christ, we can deduce some things important to our discussions. As I’ve said, I cannot find someone who spoke like that.
Lewis narrows the possibilities for Christ’s identity to 3, I think, because he wasn’t aware of anyone who could have created what He is quoted as saying. If someone did make up what He said, who would it be? What was her purpose? Where did he come up with such ideas? What is the closest or most similar set of statements found anywhere? Jesus, as God, sharing his parting thoughts with his closest followers at the very end of his life, I contend, reveals thoughts that no one ever dreamed of before and in doing so He offers compelling evidence that He was/is God.
I already discussed what I think of the contents of what Jesus is recorded as saying in the Gospel of John, including chapters 14-16, where Jesus is taking about himself quite a bit, in post #8.
Lewis’s trilemma is a bad argument. Carries no weight unless you accept the Gospel stories as strictly factual history. If you do that you already believe Jesus is Lord.
John could have been inspired to reframe Jesus’ ministry from the divine perspective. If you somehow think a person couldn’t be that creative (which is dubious in my eyes), then the Spirit moving over the fourth evangelist as he wrote explains their existence just as good as if Jesus said them.
Vinnie
Klax, I wanted nothing to do with this mess. It was ridiculous on every level. Anyone who believed this junk had to be, Had to be, nuts.
“I believe in Christianity as I believe that the sun has risen: not only because I see it, but because by it I see everything else.” cs lewis
He became depressed when he finally realized Christ was God. It was a real let down for him, initially.
Some friends would tell me that having a child is the greatest experience. “I bet it is.” No, you have no idea. Wait to you hold you baby girl in your arms the first time!
Truer words were never spoken. I can’t explain what He’s like very well. I would to God that I could. But, I am a parent and I know now what the birth of a child is like, and being born from above is even more wonderful. One reason I say that is if not for him I would not be married, not to a wonderful, trustworthy, bright woman, I wouldn’t have children, I wouldn’t be alcohol free for decades, I wouldn’t have a friend or a job and I wouldn’t be alive.
14 “Do not let your hearts be troubled. You believe in God[a]; believe also in me. 2 My Father’s house has many rooms; if that were not so, would I have told you that I am going there to prepare a place for you?"
What I meant is let’s start with what He said, a small portion at a time to keep it manageable, and see what we can learn. This approach helps to direct our attention to the nitty gritty of his thoughts and intentions.
For example, who does He think He is to be telling these grown men not to be troubled because, if they really believe in God, He is God and cannot let them down? Who says things like that?
I am asking anyone and everyone. Doesn’t matter if your thoughts are different than what others might offer.
Let’s play Imagination Island. I have a child who loved Barney and we visited Imagination Island daily. Did any of you? Use your imagination. Did He say it? If not, who did? What were they trying to say? Is it symbolic, a summary, hyperbole, b.s.? What? It can’t hurt to try.
Jesus met them and said, “Greetings!” And they came up and took hold of his feet and worshiped him. 10 Then Jesus said to them, “Do not be afraid; go and tell my brothers to go to Galilee, and there they will see me.” matt 28
Klas, I am preaching and I apologize. Here are a few statements from/about Christ after He was crucified. He has risen from the grave and runs into some disciples. They freak and grab him overjoyed and worship him.
I don’t get it, honestly. How could He not be fully God?
Fret not Ralphie. We coo-ell. As Devil’s advocate: the adopted Son of God underwent full theosis in the resurrection? It doesn’t work for me either. All or nothing. However…
God the Son has always done this.
I am lost again.
It’s the single greatest neutral fact Ralphie. Eternity. It changes everything. Including God.
Hey. Thanks. I’m still lost but I feel much better.
Our Father high in heaven, smile down upon your son
Who is busy with his money games - his women and his gun
Oh Jesus save me
And the unsung western hero, he killed an Indian or three
And then he made his name in Hollywood to set the white man free
Oh Jesus save me
If Jesus saves, well he better save himself
From the gory glory seekers who use his name in death
Oh Jesus save me
If Jesus saves, well he better save himself
From the gory glory seekers who use his name in death
Oh Jesus save me
Well I saw him in the city, and on the mountains of the moon
His cross was rather bloody, and he could hardly roll his stone
Oh Jesus save me
I was Aqualung
You hold your ground you! I’m never going to say anything to undermine you; nothing I can say can. And ole Jethro is perfick.
Eternity changes God for the better: He has always done it, always grounded it, always incarnated in to it when it has always come up with people. He has always lifted people up.
Ain’t Tull the greatest? I met Ian a while back. Thanked him for his music which I told him saved my life. I listened to Aqualung repeatedly back in the day because it was a great album and because Ian sang forcefully about somebody being resurrected. That was my exposure to “religion”. My family hated religion above everything and I couldn’t figure out who this guy was who rose from the grave. He sounded deadly serious about how mankind had screwed God, the One he didn’t have to wind up on Sundays. What the heck you talking about, I kept wondering? You believe in a real God who hears your prayers despite what we have done to destroy and to offend him? I was so lost, but fascinated and it kept me curious while my wonderful life got flushed down the toilet, draining into a bog where Aqualung and I, with nothing to live for, searched for dogends to smoke and fawned over pretty girls.
Trying to make sense with him its a dead end . Just a quick note
This topic was automatically closed 6 days after the last reply. New replies are no longer allowed.