Job and Dinosaurs

Psalm 74:14.

It was you who crushed the heads of Leviathan and gave it as food to the creatures of the desert.

Every translation on biblehub.com translates “heads” in the plural. They also note that the Hebrew, רָאשֵׁ֣י (rā·šê), is the plural form of the word for “head”.

I noted at the top of this thread that this was a possible allusion to Leviathan as having multiple heads. However, the point I was making wasn’t that Leviathan did have multiple heads but that the descriptions of Leviathan in the Bible are too vague and contain too much poetic licence to be able to differentiate between a sauropod dinosaur and something else.

And where, pray tell, have there been reports of dinosaur skin with circles on them?

The depictions of dinosaurs on the Ica stones are nowhere near accurate. Besides the fact that they are highly stylised, they are all based on depictions of dinosaurs that were popular in children’s books in the mid-twentieth century but that are now known to be wrong. For example, they depict T-Rex as having stood upright and dragged its tail along the ground, rather than as having had its body parallel to the ground using its tail for balance. It has been known since the 1970s that this depiction was in error but it was only in the 1990s with Jurassic Park that T-Rexes started to be depicted accurately in popular culture.

Furthermore the dinosaurs depicted on the Ica stones were not found in that part of South America. T-Rex lived in what is now the north western USA (Washington/Oregon/Idaho/Montana and thereabouts). Furthermore, the large prehistoric animals that did exist in that part of the world are notable by their absence. Why are there no depictions of terror birds, for example?

And then there are all the other weird and wonderful things that the Ica stones depict. Modern surgical procedures. World maps. Horses (which were not known in the Americas until the Europeans arrived). Space travel. Flying saucers.

I hope you realise that the ancient aliens guys are all in love with the Ica stones too? And they all acknowledge that humans evolved over millions of years. Only they think that humans evolved from aliens rather than a common ancestor with the great apes. And guess what? They cite the Ica stones as evidence for that.

And this is a tactic we see time and time and time again from cranks who think that they can single-handedly overturn decades of painstaking research supported by hundreds of thousands of scientific studies. No evidence? No adequate documentation for your evidence? No problem. Just blame the police/the military/the Government/the Illuminati/the Men in Black/the SCP Foundation.

Works to perfection on people who have been trained to swallow every conspiracy theory hook, line and sinker, no matter how implausible. Doesn’t work on people who have wised up to the fact that some conspiracy theories are implausible to the point of being patent nonsense. Such as, for example, the idea that hundreds of thousands of scientists could have been systematically falsifying evidence on an industrial scale for more than a century.

I did read the article. They tested only one stone of known provenance, alongside one that was known to be fake and one of “unknown provenance.”

The one of known provenance looks like this:

image

And how, pray tell, does this highly stylised picture unambiguously represent a sauropod dinosaur? It could just as easily represent a horse or a crocodile or a reticulated python as far as I can see.

Once again, same problem. You’re trying to overturn hundreds of thousands of painstaking high-precision measurements with the most vague and ambiguous evidence imaginable. You simply can’t do that.

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Psalm 74:14

From Ben Stanhope - What was Leviathan?

Are we dealing with multiple Leviathans, each with a single head? Or are we dealing with one Leviathan that has multiple heads—a sort of hydra? It’s easy to see how one might skim through this verse without ever asking the question.
As anyone who has had first semester Hebrew will tell you, it turns out, grammatically, this passage is indisputably describing a single creature with multiple heads. It is describing a hydra. In the Hebrew phrase, “heads of Leviathan”, the term “head” appears in the plural state marked by what is called a sere-yod in conjunction with the singular noun “Leviathan.”

The seven headed dragon was considered a figure of chaos in the ancient near east.

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All it needs to evolve is prodigious methanogenic digestion and piezo crystals in its teeth or talons. It would have had an enormous wingspan and JATO by having this at the other end too!

Unless, being a long necked sauropod, it simply bent over and stuck its head up its

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The description of Leviathan in Job 41 is quite detailed, yet there is nothing about it having multiple heads. If Leviathan possessed something as freaky, unique and distinctive as multiple heads, I would expect Job 41 to have mentioned them … but it doesn’t.

You’re no Hebrew scholar, Adam. People are just pointing out what actual Hebrew scholars say about an ancient language you don’t read. How it sounds to you in English translation is irrelevant.

Check out the notes on the Evangelical Heritage Version here:

This is the study note from the English Standard Version Bible, one used in many young earth preaching churches:

Job 40:17 tail stiff like a cedar. “Tail” is a common euphemism for phallus. It is to be so interpreted in this verse, considering the description of the anatomy of the animal. Potency is often associated with procreative power. In the medieval period, Behemoth was conceived as a symbol of sensuality and sin. sinews of his thighs. The word for “sinews” is otherwise unknown. Some ancient versions (see Targum, Latin) took it to mean “testicle,” in keeping with the interpretation of the first line.

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Psalm 74:14

King James Version

14 Thou brakest the heads of leviathan in pieces, and gavest him to be meat to the people inhabiting the wilderness.

So, we ate all the multi-headed fire breathing dragons! After God killed them for us.

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It sounds rather bizarre if read literally. I hope “the people inhabiting the wilderness” liked the taste of roasted Leviathan …

Sorry, but that commentary sounds a tad ridiculous.

Behemoth had a phallus like a “cedar”? Wow … the mind boggles!

The “sinews of his thighs” refers to testicles? I doubt it.

Where did Abraham tell Eliezer and Jacob tell Joseph to put their hands and what English word comes from that?

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Well OBVIOUSLY Leviathan evolved between Job and Psalms. It very rapidly became polycephalic in less than 2000 years.

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Horses were present in the New World before the megafauna die-offs.

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Sorry? It MUST not be read in any other way!

The most telling bit of information is that Basilio Uschuya, the person who “discovered” thousands of the stones, could never take anyone to the archaeological site where he was finding the stones. That’s because the site didn’t exist.

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Yes, of course; I should have thought of that. I’m so dumb.

I wouldn’t read it literally.

On what BIBLICAL authority?!

This is a creationist journal, not a professional journal. [Edited]

Very true. Horses evolved in the New World.

No, it says it was stiff like a cedar. Biblical hyperbole