Jay Bhattacharya and the NIH

[pevaquark (Matthew Pevarnik)]

@Terry_Sampson

And this thread is going to turn the tide in the favor of science and change the OP author’s mind? By all means then, continue…

I have very much found over the years these posts are not really for the OP so much. Typically when coming in like this post, they double down on their position when confronted with any evidence. Maybe years from now they will look back and change their mind like some of my students, but maybe not. Thus, these threads are moreso for others to learn and improve their thinking and arguments. Or just to not feel so insane surrounded by people who repeat fox news propaganda nonstop. I know a lot of people like different OPs over the years and the threads and forum have helped me personally a lot independent of having some OP “come to the light.”

[Doug_Bodde (Doug B)]

It seems some have spied out my freedom to make true statements without a PhD in the field and without a DSM code. I will not answer how but leave you with the Prophet Lewis to contemplate.

[Terry_Sampson]

• A reasonable justification.

[Terry_Sampson]

@Doug_Bodde

the Prophet Lewis

• “The Prophet Lewis”???
• Ahhh, … this guy:
  • C.S. Lewis and Evolution [22:51]
  • C.S. Lewis on Evolution and Intelligent Design [33:55]
    • “Apr 12, 2024. What were C.S. Lewis’s real views on evolution and intelligent design? Dr. John West, Vice President of Discovery Institute, explores this topic in this lecture from the 2024 Dallas Conference on Science & Faith sponsored by Discovery Institute. Dr. West is editor of The Magician’s Twin: C.S. Lewis on Science, Scientism, and Society and co-editor of The C.S. Lewis Readers’ Encyclopedia. Find out more at Dr. West’s website, www.johngwest.com.”

[Kendel]

The truth value of your statements about depression as well as Lewis’ status as a prophet consists of no more than that you make the statements. You haven’t provided any actual support for the claims except that you make them and they make sense to you.
People who see it they way you do, might agree with you because they see it the same way, but you’ve provided no actual support for your claims.

[St.Roymond]

@Randy

And sadly, having Bhattacharya and Kennedy at the helm of our bulwark against infectious disease, with novel infections like avian flu and who knows what else could be coming, is frightening.

It used to be that education and experience were valued by conservatives.
But then these aren’t conservatives, they’re reactionaries.

[St.Roymond]

@T_aquaticus

How do we tackle this moral and ethical problem?

My interest would be on the theological side of that, how to get across to Christians that not getting vaccinated isn’t a sign of faith, it’s putting God to the test – something Jesus rejected quite firmly when Satan tested Him.

@adamjedgar

posting photos of herself sunning at the beach

Thus applying scientific knowledge whether she knew it or not: the virus survived poorly in both salt air and sunlight.

@adamjedgar

a dimwitted dole bludger who claimed that face masks dont work…then he used as evidence in support of his claim a research result where apparently in testing the one that did work was glued to a test subjects face.

One more who couldn’t grasp the difference between a mask protecting the wearer and a mask protecting others – or was too selfish to think about anyone else.

@Jay313

@T_aquaticus

@cewoldt

Further, vaccination should be voluntary and optional, and not mandated.

Voluntary and optional? That’s just dumb.

It’s kind of like saying that there shouldn’t be safety signs or speed limits on highways – let safety be “voluntary and optional”.

@Jay313

Being a devout Christian doesn’t protect a person from being fundamentally wrong.

Or from being fundamentally idiots. More people should heed Martin Luther’s warning: better someone who knows what they’re doing even if a pagan than an incompetent Christian!

@Jay313

Paraphrasing her father’s rationale, “God created measles…”

Stupid theology! God created rats, too – does this guy let them roam his house freely? and wasps; would he let them build a nest in a child’s room?

@T_aquaticus

It’s starting to feel like people have decided Americans shouldn’t be exceptional anymore.

If someone wanted to destroy any claim to America being exceptional, this would sure be a great way to do it!

@pevaquark

It’s a legitimate research question and an important one as the mental health outcomes for the trans community are at stake including increased risks of depression and suicide thanks to this legislation.

But reactionaries don’t want that known; it would not surprise me at this point if it was discovered that the goal is to be able to decide what counts as mental illness and use that to persecute “undesirables”.

@Doug_Bodde

an emotive process influenced by unaccountable factors. (It’s made up.) Science doesn’t study made up things.

Science can study “emotive process[es] influenced by unaccountable factors” to learn what’s going on.
So your argument is “made up”.

[St.Roymond]

@Doug_Bodde

It is the assumption of all humanity

And it was once the assumption of all humanity that the Earth was found, flat, and covered by a solid dome.
Getting past assumptions is called “learning”.

@Doug_Bodde

just the use of right reason

Ah – Aristotle, I see, not scripture. The “right use of reason” once asserted infallibly that all bodies in the heavens are perfect spheres. It also once asserted that people with darker skins were obviously closer to the Devil.

@Doug_Bodde

Most depression is not mental illness; it’s common acedia or melancholy.

Well, I rebuke that in the name of Jesus! That is spoken from ignorance, a view that comes from a lack of interest in or concern for those undergoing something that compared to “common acedia or melancholy” is like a devastating hailstorm compared to a gentle snowfall.

@T_aquaticus

When depression causes a person to not live a normal life, that is mental illness.

Yes. The difference is fairly simple: common depression can be countered by happy events; clinical depression tends to be made worse by happy events. When I was “down” in grad school after completing a project, going out ice skating with hot chocolate standing by could pull me out of it; when in depression if the Publishers Clearing House team had showed up and brought me a million-dollar check it would have made me suicidal. Mere melancholy, what most people think of when they hear “depression”, can be countered by events with emotional content; real depression is only magnified by emotional content regardless of whether positive or negative.

@T_aquaticus

There is definitely a debate to be had over indirect costs, but slashing indirect costs to 15% across the board is an attempt to cripple research in general.

Or total ignorance of how things work, sort of like the morons who think that the expense of buying a new airplane shouldn’t be deducted from an airline company’s income before taxes because “expenses should come out of profits” – it’s a total failure to grasp how paying for things works.
It’s the kind of arrogant incompetence that the word “sophomoric” was invented for.

@Randy

Will they say that we get measles because we didn’t eat our greens?

I’ve actually heard that (from the same people who said, “You have depression because you didn’t read your Bible enough”).

@Randy

By the way, it’s going to be 60 degrees this weekend–hurray! --but then it will snow Monday. Yike.

We had that sort of weather swing a lot when I was in the Midwest in grad school – once in a single day (which also included tornadoes).

@pevaquark

I think the leaders of these organizations are fine with further eroding trust in vaccines in our country - to what end? I’m not sure.

I wouldn’t be surprised if one motivation matches that of something I overheard by the grocery store down the street: the conviction that vaccines are only needed by “dark people”, so they shouldn’t be given at all.

[St.Roymond]

@T_aquaticus

My grandmother nearly died from a measles infection, something almost no one experiences today in developed countries.

I tried recently to explain what it was like having the measles, spending what seemed like a month in near-total darkness, drinking grape juice (to the point where I still think of being sick when I smell grape juice) and slurping chicken soup. Younger folk today just can’t grasp what it would be like to be that sick!
[I didn’t tell them that to me the worst part wasn’t being allowed to read!]

@T_aquaticus

At least for my generation, the attitudes towards vaccines is absolutely perplexing, and doubly so for us that are working in the field of infectious disease.

For those known as “Baby Boomers” and “Generation Jones” (born 1954-1965) it is baffling.

@Mervin_Bitikofer

Who’d have thunk we’d have so many Christians in this country who are now obliged to look up to nonbelievers as the better exemplars of adhering to Christ-like morality and truth!

It is troubling. In high school Christian Club members got mocked for always being willing to help out; Christians in high school now get mocked for hating others and believing stupid things.

@Jay313

Universities in France and the UK are already recruiting.

I know a physician in Australia who leads his department at a research hospital; they’ve already spent thousands to bring two doctors and their families to their facility.

@Jay313

because there’s no such thing as natural immunity against that virus. Millions have been infected multiple times in this country alone.

The family of a friend claims that vaccines don’t work because all of them got COVID whether vaccinated or not. Knowing the situation, I pointed out that those who had been vaccinated (1) didn’t suffer as badly and (2) got it fewer times (his step dad has had COVID three times yet still talks about natural immunity).

@heymike3

Did you see Wes Huff’s interview with Rogan?

I love what he had to say about knowing (ANE) languages!

Also about realizing it’s never possible to know everything about a subject.

Ah, “inference to the best explanation” – a familiar phrase from ancient language studies as well.

I’m going to be checking out more of his stuff.

BTW, Huff has a creative mind–

[knor (Kai)]

@St.Roymond

@T_aquaticus

My grandmother nearly died from a measles infection, something almost no one experiences today in developed countries.

I tried recently to explain what it was like having the measles, spending what seemed like a month in near-total darkness, drinking grape juice (to the point where I still think of being sick when I smell grape juice) and slurping chicken soup. Younger folk today just can’t grasp what it would be like to be that sick!

Much has changed during the last few decades. In my childhood, there were no measles vaccines available, so when a child got measles, mothers gathered with their babies/small children to that family (measles party). The rationale was that an infection at an early age was likely to cause less damage than if the infection would come at a later age. Some sort of ‘real stuff vaccination’.

The mothers had themselves gone through the infection in their childhood, so they were not in danger of becoming sick. Practically all got the measles during those days.

I have been told that by the age of three years, I had gone through most of the common childrens infections that circulated then - measles, chicken pox, scarlet fever, mumps and others as well. I guess that was not rare. Doctors did not give medication to childrens fevers so when I got scarlet fever and the body temperature went above 40 C, the advice was to sink the child into icy water to lower the fever. Those were the days.

I am happy that we do not live in that world anymore. Thank God for vaccines.

[T_aquaticus (The Friendly Neighborhood Atheist)]

@St.Roymond

Or total ignorance of how things work, sort of like the morons who think that the expense of buying a new airplane shouldn’t be deducted from an airline company’s income before taxes because “expenses should come out of profits” – it’s a total failure to grasp how paying for things works.

A better analogy is in thinking the cost of an airplane should just reflect the direct labor and materials that went into building it. This ignores all of the infrastructure needed to support a company that makes airplanes, such as HR departments, safety, investment into new technology, training programs, etc. Indirect costs from NIH grants support research infrastructure, everything from supporting administrative staff to supporting grad students and researchers themselves when there is a gap in grant funding. There’s also the need to invest in new technology.

Currently, there are line items in a grant that are considered indirect costs and therefore can not be part of the budget for the research grant. My guess is those rules will be loosened, or people will find workarounds. In the end, it will result in less money going to the actual research, but at least these research programs can still get grad students, post docs, and the people they need to function. This assumes there still are grants in the future.

[Terry_Sampson]

• So, I was wondering …
  • I came across Dr. John West’s lecture on C.S. Lewis on Evolution and Intelligent Design (April 12, 2024).
  • What did you think of it?

[St.Roymond]

@knor

I have been told that by the age of three years, I had gone through most of the common childrens infections that circulated then - measles, chicken pox, scarlet fever, mumps and others as well.

I think I was about ten when I went through the measles; the others I forget. The measles memory stuck with me because being in the dark so long was torture.

[St.Roymond]

@Kendel

It’s not as simple as you claim to know.

It also requires ignoring the effects of the Fall on our physical bodies.

[Kendel]

And a great many other things that really have nothing to do with sin and curses.

[heymike3]

Plus decades of sociology

[heymike3]

@St.Roymond

I’m going to be checking out more of his stuff.

BTW, Huff has a creative mind–

Super! I’m very glad you were able to check him out. It’s encouraging to see how God uses different people at different times.

I’ve been following Philip Goff and he he has a debate coming out with Bill Craig. Craig looks tired and out of touch in the preview.

I wrote Goff about my contact with Craig, and also about how the rational possibility of solispsism really enlarges the gulf between Christians who see Jesus as an archetype and those who see him as the Son of God.

[Kendel]

Um. er. You find this funny?
Ok.

Sociology is the scientific study of human society that focuses on society, human social behavior, patterns of social relationships, social interaction, and aspects of culture associated with everyday life.[1][2][3]Regarded as a part of both the social sciences and humanities, sociology uses various methods of empirical investigation and critical analysis[4]: 3–5 to develop a body of knowledge about social order and social change.[4]: 32–40 Sociological subject matter ranges from micro-level analyses of individual interaction and agency to macro-level analyses of social systems and social structure.

From Sociology - Wikipedia

[glipsnort (Steve Schaffner)]

The Pregnancy Risk Assessment Monitoring System at the CDC, which is a long-running program to reduce the risks of pregnancy and birth, has been eliminated. Not officially eliminated, but everyone in the program has been fired.

[glipsnort (Steve Schaffner)]

Overall, the CDC and NIH have been absolutely destroyed today.