Is there any way to build bridges with YECs?

[rsewell (RON SEWELL)]

@T_aquaticus

I told him that even the Bible says that God does not exist:

Psalms 14:1 “There is no God”

When he looked up the full verse it clicked for him.

The best response to YEC quote mining ever.

[Jesse_England]

this would be a good podcast episode

[St.Roymond]

@Mervin_Bitikofer

and they will freely admit that everyone (including themselves) has one; especially since they are often eager to use this as a free “get-out-of-jail” pass or permission,

Yes, they claim to have a “biblical worldview” but fail to recognize the worldview they use to see the bible through.

@Mervin_Bitikofer

While they do admit (when pressed) that, of course they have a worldview too, they functionally forget this in the heat of argument and effectively think that “worldviews” are what everybody else has. What “I” (the YECer) have is … the truth.

Interesting observation.

@Mervin_Bitikofer

And it’s at that point that the chickens have really come home to roost for them (and they can’t see any of them!) Everybody else can, though.

One of those “chickens” is lies, and another is pigeonholing.

@jammycakes

On the contrary, knowing what you’re talking about turns a bad argument from clueless gibberish into conscious and deliberate lying.

Yeah. I recall, after having met Morris, wondering if he even realized how deceptive he was, or (being gracious) had become. A friend who was with me observed that Morris argued like a high school freshman, grabbing onto anything that looked like it might support him.

[St.Roymond]

@SkovandOfMitaze

Almost every single YECist I know also shares a particular political outlook.

One which is as destructive in policies as their “theology” is spiritually.

@SkovandOfMitaze

Like they will hear me talk about a horror film and in return mention it’s sinful to watch those things.

I once pointed out that the early Christians lived in a society where things worse than most horror films were a part of everyday life. I got charged with enjoying the horror (real non-sequitur there!), to which I replied that if laughing at it constituted “enjoying” then I was guilty.
Left them speechless.

@Randy

I still think that with the strong pull they have, I’m not sure they fully understood.

This brought to mind one of my education profs and an observation he made one day: it’s commonly said that cognitive dissonance is unsettling, but that’s only true if you’re aware of it – which in return reminds me of a psychiatrist’s remark that the primary mental activity of most human beings is to tell themselves convenient little lies.

[St.Roymond]

@T_aquaticus

There was a moment in the past where I broke through with a YEC on the problem with these quotes. I told him that even the Bible says that God does not exist:

Psalms 14:1 “There is no God”

I have used this: take two Bible verses and put them together–

“Judas went and hanged himself; go thou and do likewise.”

The almost universal protest is that I’m taking them out of context.

For humor my sister used this:

“We all like sheep.”

So believers should have a favorable attitude towards sheep . . .

[jammycakes (James McKay)]

@St.Roymond

Yeah. I recall, after having met Morris, wondering if he even realized how deceptive he was, or (being gracious) had become.

I get the impression that many young earthists have a completely different understanding of what constitutes deception and lying in the first place. A lot of them seem to view lying in exclusively spiritual terms—the Bible describes the devil as the father of lies so that means that they end up viewing lying entirely in those terms. The concept of lying as such things as misrepresenting evidence, not having accurate measurements, or quote mining, doesn’t even seem to be on their radar.

My big worry about this is that it can all too easily spill over into other areas of life. For example, I once heard someone describing a ten year old schoolboy’s money making idea as God having given him exceptional business wisdom. In actual fact the idea in question was nothing more nor less than a form of price gouging.

[St.Roymond]

@jammycakes

I get the impression that many young earthists have a completely different understanding of what constitutes deception and lying in the first place. A lot of them seem to view lying in exclusively spiritual terms—the Bible describes the devil as the father of lies so that means that they end up viewing lying entirely in those terms. The concept of lying as such things as misrepresenting evidence, not having accurate measurements, or quote mining, doesn’t even seem to be on their radar.

I would refer them to Martin Luther, doctor of the scriptures:

You shall not give false testimony against your neighbor.

What does this mean?

We should fear and love God so that we do not tell lies about our neighbor, betray him, slander him, or hurt his reputation, but defend him, speak well of him, and explain everything in the kindest way.

[paleomalacologist (David Campbell)]

@CallAnAudible

Saying you see the sun in the sky literally is a faith claim

Defining “Faith” is needed. Basically, it is putting trust in something. It is true that, to say that I see the sunshine coming in the window right now, I am putting faith in the reliability of my senses, the accuracy of my interpretation (e.g., I correctly remember that the sun is the main source of daytime outdoor light on earth), etc. Pseudoscientific atheism ignores the many ways that it depends on faith when it tries to use semantics to circularly “prove” that faith is irrational. Their popular argument boils down to “I claim that faith is the opposite of reason, therefore anything I label as faith is unreasonable.” Although certain philosophical positions challenge such faith in the reliability of the senses and the existence of physical reality (including the more extreme or more popularized versions of postmodernism), it is common sense and a practical necessity to assume that our senses do give meaningful information and that we can reasonably interpret that information. At the same time, we need to remember the limitations that constrain the reliability of our senses and reasoning. Also, it is reasonable to ask what justification we have for those assumptions.

Faith in something may be more or less justified by the evidence. Has the source been reliable in what you can verify? Is it consistent? etc.

[adamjedgar (adam james edgar)]

Well ill be…someone other than me whos quoting a Seventh Day Adventist theologian (Samuel was SDA)