Please help me understand how this is a “fact”. Most of the 12 disciples were never heard from again after Jesus’s death. Not in the Bible and not anywhere else! They all just vanished except for John, Peter and a slight non-significant mention of others. The person who wrote the oldest parts of the New Testament, Paul, never met Jesus before the resurrection. Most of the persecution stores come from non-canonical gospels.
I have one some research on this and found next to zero evidence outside of the Bible of anyone who knew Jesus before the resurrection being persecuted. The stories in the Gospels, written by non-eyewitnesses and anonymous with no references, were written decades after the events so there is nothing to say the resurrection is just a story from a small group written to convince people of what a cult believed. If one looks at Mormons and Joseph Smith, it is easy to show how stories like this can be believed and grow into a huge religion.
Religion is mostly faith based, not fact based.
Klax
(The only thing that matters is faith expressed in love.)
63
Another another issue is that even if Jesus is God incarnate, there are no prophecies of that (or anything else). Even though He saw Himself in His culture’s founding myth. By faith He was right. He even continued to use it when He knew better. When faith was no longer necessary for Him. Pragmatism still was.
Im not sure what I believe concerning Christ seeing himself in the Jewish stories as the son of God or if he always knew or if he discovered it as he got older and so on. I’m curious but that’s years and years away from me starting to study it.
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Klax
(The only thing that matters is faith expressed in love.)
65
I’m not sure how you got that from my statement. But since I’m not a expert on incarnated gods within the form of a man I can’t be certain of what he was aware of or was not aware of. I have no idea if as a kid he heard God talking to him just like we hear our own parents. So I can’t respond since it’s not there. I also have no idea what the soul of God was capable of thinking as a child or a man.
Sadly, as usual, your understanding fails you and is unable to help those seeking to know Jesus and the Father.
The Law and the prophets speak of Jesus just as He said they did.
Luke 24:44 He said to them, “This is what I told you while I was still with you: Everything must be fulfilled that is written about me in the Law of Moses, the Prophets and the Psalms.”
45 Then he opened their minds so they could understand the Scriptures. 46 He told them, “This is what is written: The Christ will suffer and rise from the dead on the third day, 47 and repentance and forgiveness of sins will be preached in his name to all nations, beginning at Jerusalem. 48 You are witnesses of these things. 49 I am going to send you what my Father has promised; but stay in the city until you have been clothed with power from on high.”
You continually judge the Father and the Son instead of allowing their words to judge you. The pinical of pride is not to humble oneself before the Almighty. May God keep us all from pride.
Klax
(The only thing that matters is faith expressed in love.)
69
Yep, He rightly saw Himself there even though He isn’t.
Klax
(The only thing that matters is faith expressed in love.)
70
Just asking. That would be always. He didn’t hear voices, no. He wasn’t mentally ill.
Klax
(The only thing that matters is faith expressed in love.)
71
Yet scripture says Samuel heard the voice God, Moses had conversations with God, and Paul saw a vision on the road to Damascus and Jacob wrestled with an angel.
So I can’t just say it would be a sign of mental illness for Jesus to have been able to hear God. After all at a young age he went into the temple and when asked said he went into his fathers home.
Klax
(The only thing that matters is faith expressed in love.)
73
The Bible claims many things. One of them is not that Jesus heard God talking to Him and audibly engaged with Him in conversation. Your example is in an irrelevant category error.
But we can see that there was more behind the scenes then said.
Such as how did Jesus as a kid already know God was his father. How did Jesus at some point in his life see satan fall like lightening from heaven. In the end, as our original discussion was focused on, it’s impossible to know because it’s left out. Same as everything in Jesus’s life is basically left out. I can’t pretend to think that Jesus was reading scriptures and figurines through scriptures he was God. I imagine he was in some form of communication with God. If Abraham, Moses, and Paul was then I have to assume Jesus was as well.
Klax
(The only thing that matters is faith expressed in love.)
75
I agree He qualitatively knew what solely humans could never naturally know [unless it’s all cultural evolution and story we made up]. As He demonstrated. But He certainly couldn’t know anything quantitative outside His culture. As He demonstrated.
coltcorrea,
How did Christianity spread around the globe if most of the apostles “were never heard from again”? I myself belong to the southernmost state in India (Kerala) and my ancestors were converted by St Thomas 2000 years ago. There are innumerable churches dedicated to him and every catholic family there has a few “Thomases”. His burial site, in the neighbouring state of Tamil Nadu is a pilgrim site. Similarly, I am sure there are other regions of the globe where the apostles reached to spread the word of God.
We had the pleasure of seeing Mars Hill a few years back, but did not climb it as the climb to the Parthenon had worn us out and it was a misty day with slick rocks.