My Muslim friend says the same thing about Islam: “Believe the Koran now or find out the truth after you die. You will then suffer the eternal wrath of Allah.”
Do you believe that you can perceive the presence of Jesus within you, Terry?
No. But I’ve experienced what I believe to have been a divine presence. A lotta good that’s going to do your demand for truth. How about something slightly more substantial? P.S. I’m not a Muslim and make no apologies for the difference. Apistos can tell you a clever story about Jehovah’s wrath, which IMO proves that it was written by a Protestant because they’re the biggest fans of that name.
100% certain? What does that even mean? And I found it odd that your title asks for “objective or scientific evidence” whereas your post itself asks for 100% certainty in belief that God the Son, dwells within us. Are you equating scientific evidence with 100% certainty?
I would reject that as science doesn’t even work in terms of certainty. It makes predictions and offers well tested explanations for broad sets of observations. These explanations can evolve, be refined or even replaced by more robust theories.
You are setting a bizarre standard because I’d say there are a lot of things we take for granted and have an extremely high degree of confidence in without 100.00000 % certainty.
Looking for physical explanations for spiritual things is also like trying to mow your lawn with a metal detector or a papaya. Wrong tools for the job.
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Richard said he was 100% sure of the presence of Jesus within him. I did not claim that 100% certainty was a necessary standard.
How certain are you, Vinnie, that you can perceive the presence of Jesus/the Holy Spirit within you?
Clear-eyed reason gives me permission to believe. Gratitude encourages me to believe.
As far as I am concerned God and the Holy Spirit are a fact of life. I do not keep reassessing my faith or the reasons for it. God asnwers every prayer, but it is not always what I ask for, sometimes it is a better solution, sometimes it is a plain no. My faith does not rely on such feedback loops. Miracles do not have to be supernatural or inexplicble. Yes, I have have “performed” he inxplicable, but just because I cannot give you a natural solution does not mean it doesn’t exist.
What you are after, i cannot give. When I learned to drive I had to constantly go through the motions to change gear, eventually it becomes automatic. My faith has reached that stage. I do not question or analyse it The influence of the Spitirt comes and goes. God does not force it on me unless He has to, and He has my permisision to do so. I tap into His wisdom without thought or question. When I preach, it is rarely what is witten before me, but the process of wriiting puts the ideas into my mind so that when I speak It is my words inspired by The Holy Spirit’s prompting. I know when I am not right with God because the words that come out are shallow and ineffective..
Faith is not about feedbac k or proof. As long as you are looking for such thongs you have not got it. It is as instinctive as breathing and as uncoontrolable as my heart rate.
I do not wish to sound superior or condescneding, but it is what it is, I am sorry, but until or unless you own faith it can be as elusive as a four leaf clover, or a 50p coin with the King’s head on it.
Richard
That deconstructs to that you see a gap, to me. That you can interpolate into. A great relief. A great release.
What do you see?
What gap? Nothing in what I believe is impossible. And Post-Thoracic endovascular aortic repair, in October 2022, was followed by gratitude so great I had to ask God to ease it lest it kill me.
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No, but nothing in what you believe is necessary; is warranted, justified, true, knowledge. Especially as you perceive no gap. I’m glad it all worked. The permission is in the entirely separate magisterium of subjective emotive numinous personal individual unique lived experience. I envy you.
Sez you. 
Nope. Says reason. Nothing to do with me. You feel otherwise. That’s interior, internal. Fine. I’m glad. But you cannot reason to that being external. That’s OK.
The Problem of “The Now”
What’s the problem? How does it relate to non-knowledge? [Apart from their being entirely interior, psychological, metaphysical, qualia.]
There is no problem. I reasoned my way through it, which has distressed more than a few around here. The relevance? You either see it or you don’t. It’s an unwelcome topic in this forum.
It intrigues me Terry. How you did it. What was your starting point? I see no relevance in the entirely psychological problem of now. Is that where you started? With that illusion we all share?
Did what? My starting point in what? my paper, or my relationship with Todd Kelso between 2002 and his death in 2004?
Not as certain as I am that I don’t listen to it enough.
Such things are not quantifiable to me. I can’t apply physical-based probability judgments to spiritual things like I’m evaluating what number on a die will turn up. To me this confused the types of beliefs.
CS Lewis: “I believe in Christianity as I believe that the sun has risen: not only because I see it, but because by it I see everything else.”
God’s light is a foundational truth that provides the framework for understanding everything else in life. It’s the filter by which I view everything. Sometimes I feel God’s presence more strongly than others.
Mostly what I perceive is me not relying on God as much as I should….beyond that I don’t find the question very intelligible.
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How you reasoned from The Problem of Now, which is non-problem to me, unlike Einstein.
As to the OP. By their fruits you shall know them. Nothing stands out does it, of the statistical surface. Like claims of healing.
I recall a Christian commentator a generation and more ago saying that if America were 85% Christian, as claimed, you’d expect it to taste salty.
As the late great Tony Campolo said, “Mixing American values with the Gospel is like mixing cow manure with ice cream. It doesn’t do much to the manure, but it sure messes up the ice cream.”
He made an even better scatological point.
How would you respond to someone of another world religion who makes the same claim:
“Faith in Allah/Lord Krishna/the Mormon god is not about feedback or proof. As long as you are looking for such things you have not got it. It is as instinctive as breathing and as uncontrollable as my heart rate.”
All these religions claim that their gods answer their prayers and perform miracles for them. So, subjective feelings about answered prayers and miracles doesn’t seem like a very reliable method of truth discovery. Is there a better method?