Is there a standpoint from which the creation days in Genesis 1 are described as 24 hours per day?

omg St Roymond.

Genesis 46:2 And God spoke to Israel in a vision at night and said, “Jacob! Jacob!” “Here I am,” he replied…

Psalm 89:19 Once you spoke in a vision, to your faithful people

Isaiah 21:2 A dire vision has been shown to me…

Ezekiel 43:3 The Vision I saw

Daniel 8:2 The Vision I saw in the citadel of Susa…

Daniel 8:26 The Vision of the evenings and mornings…

Daniel 10:7 I, Daniel, was the only one who saw the vision

Luke 1:22 he came out, he could not speak to them. They realized he had seen a vision in the temple…

Acts 16:9 During the night Paul had a vision of a man of Macedonia standing and begging him

2 Corinthians 12:1 I will go on to visions and revelations from the Lord

Revelation 1 1This is the revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave Him to show His servants what must soona come to pass. He made it known by sending His angel to His servant John, 2who testifies to everything he saw.
12Then I turned to see the voice that was speaking with me. And having turned, I saw seven golden lampstands, 13and among the lampstands was One like the Son of Man,f dressed in a long robe, with a golden sash around His chest.
19Therefore write down the things you have seen, and the things that are, and the things that will happen after this.

We know that the 10 commandments were “written by the finger of God” (deuteronomy 9:10), there is no mystery here.

4th commandment “for in six days the Lord God created the heavens and the earth but on the Seventh/Sabbath Day He rested”

Now based on the above evidence, either you have never read a bible St Roymond, or you are lying…which is it?

Your examples illustrate exactly what I said: for most of the text we aren’t given any indication of how it came to be. Sometimes we are told, and you found some that mention a vision – but there are vastly more texts that don’t tell us at all.

No, the above evidence shows that you weren’t paying attention when you read, you just had a knee-jerk reaction and responded on the basis of that.

It’s a Gish Gallop.

The fact that it’s immediately preceded by a FizzBuzz failure means that we can safely ignore it.

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Yes, there is a standpoint from which the days are 24 hrs. The 6 days are a time scale that we can understand instead of billions of years, and is scaled correctly. Day 1 begins in the evening at 6pm (4.5 billion years ago). Halfway through the day at 6 am, God says, let there be light! The inside of the Earth is light mixed with darkness, liquid mixed with solid, without form and void. The whole earth is lit up because the light comes from within! Just like our light of Christ comes from within us.

Here is the scale:

  • 2Pe 3:8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

Is this just a poetic way of repeating the same thing in reverse order? No, its both ways. The second instance of a thousand years corresponds to the one day with the Lord. So its …“a thousand years (with the Lord is) as one (creation) day.” This makes sense because God is not bound by time. He can act very slowly like with evolutionary creation, or very quickly with miracles.

Our relation to Earth time is as Gods relation to our time. A “day with the Lord” is our time with the Lord. As an example, Adam lived less than 1,000 years in his time but it counted as 1 day in Gods time and 1,000 x (number of days in a year) in Earth time. The days in a year is not a constant, because the number of hours in a day change as the Earth slows in its rotation. The number of hours in a year, however is a constant at 8,766 hrs. To convert creation days into Earth year, we multiply the number of days in a year by 1000 x 1000.

Oh, and we need a starting point! Jesus is the image of God and we could not be made in the image of God until He came and showed Himself to us over 2,000 years ago. So, lets make an assumption that the year 4 BC was toward the end of the 6th creation day. We could use 0 for simplicity or even today is not going to make much difference in the time scale we are working with.

To get to the beginning of day 6: (365 x 1000 x 1000 ) = 365 million years ago. We need to do a little iteration here as there were only 23 hrs in a day 365 million year ago. So, 8,766 / 23 = 381 days in a year.

Adjusted beginning of day 6: (381 x 1000 x 1000) = 381 million years ago.

Continuing on I found that there were 20 hrs in a day at the beginning of day 5, 19 hrs in a day at the beginning of day 4, 18 hrs in a day at the beginning of day 3, 17 hrs at the beginning of day 2 and then a big jump as when the earth was first created there were only 4 hrs in a day as it spun rapidly.

Day 6: 381 million years ago - present
Day 5: 819 million - 381 million
Day 4: 1.28 billion - 819 million
Day 3: 1.77 billion - 1.28 billion
Day 2: 2.28 billion - 1.77 billion
Day 1: 4.48 billion - 2.28 billion

Then there was the beginning of the universe when 1 hour counted as the whole day. If we can spend one hour with God per day, He counts it as spending the whole “day with the Lord”.

  • Mat 26:40 Then He came to the disciples and found them sleeping, and said to Peter, “What! Could you not watch with Me one hour?

(8,766 x 1000 x 1000) = 8.77 billion years

8.77 billion + 4.48 billion = 13.25 billion years to get to the beginning!

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Jane say to Susi:
Mary told me that “yesterday you saw my boyfriend kiss Anne”.

Susi:
No… that’s a lie.
“I see your boyfriend kiss Anne” is a lie.
Even “your boyfriend kiss Anne yesterday” is also a lie, because yesterday me and Anne together the whole day without your boyfriend.

Jane:
Oh I see. So Mary is not a liar then.

Susi:
:crazy_face: :thinking:

At least to me, it does mean specific day only if:

A. Earth is flat:
The first hour of the whole flat earth Day-1 started in the evening.

or
B. Local worldview-1:
The first hour on part of the spherical earth (ex: Singapore… but not Quito) Day-1 started in the evening.

If A, people on the flat earth say:
“Genesis 1:1-5 show that Sunday begin at night/evening”

If B, people on part of the spherical earth say:
“Genesis 1:1-5 show that OUR Sunday begin at night/evening”

Since I know that earth is not flat and day&night happen simultaneously, then to me, Genesis 1:1-5 doesn’t mean spesific day. Gen 1:1-5 doesn’t mean that: Sunday started at night/evening on the whole spherical earth Day-1. Hence, there is no way I can say “DAY in Genesis 1:1-5 is 24 hours”.

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I absolutely reject your vile and false claim that I am accusing anyone!!!.

Your accusation is entirely false; in context, what I actually said on a different forum topic and quite a few months ago now, was:

It’s clear to me that evolution is a deceitful lie misleading millions away from the truth of the scriptures; particularly the historical reading of Genesis, that clearly describes what God created, who our great, great,great…great, great, great, grandparents were, i.e., Adam and Eve and how the intruder death came to exist in the creation that God said is very good when he had finished creating in creation week.
Obviously, at that point the Creation was perfect and there was NO DEATH or pain or sorrow, just a beautiful Earth, all life and the universe and time.

I was being candidly honest about what I believe to be true and importantly, I made no accusation against anyone, I truly believe, that evolution is a deceitful lie misleading millions away from the truth of the Scriptures.
(And that is what I have so believed for many decades, because I have seen first hand the destruction a belief in evolution has wreaked on the body of Christ on Earth, i.e., the Churches who overall have diminishing congregations as people see no need for God anymore, they believe evolution has explained how the diversity of life has come to exist, and simultaneously, atheism is correspondingly increasing.)

But that certainly does NOT give you free licence to stand as the accuser and make egregiously false claims about me; that is deceptive and untruthful.

I was being honest in describing the theory of evolution as misleading millions away from the truth of the scriptures, (that masquerades as science) as a deceitful lie because that is precisely what it is, in my honest opinion.

You are welcome to disagree with me, that is fine, and is certainly your prerogative but you do NOT have any right whatsoever to make egregiously false accusations that I am accusing the entire scientific community of flat-out lying. That is plainly ridiculous, many of my good honest friends and colleagues believe in evolution, but I would never dream of accusing them of lying, that would be wrong. They know what I believe and I know what they believe, but we are still good friends and we respect each other.

I expect that the people who teach and/or work in science who believe evolution do so because that is what they have been taught, and it is certainly the dominant belief today, thus their worldview perceives the theory of evolution as fact. Thus they are being honest and doing what they believe is true.

But to accuse me of accusing the entire scientific community of lying is a deceitful, evil act that exposes your motive that will stop at nothing to deceitfully discredit a fellow Christian.

Not a good look, James!

God Bless,
jon

Hi Reko,

The only witness to what actually happened during Creation is the Creator.
God knows the Earth is a sphere, after all, He made it!
As I know you realise, there were NO people in Singapore or Quito or anywhere else on the planet, indeed the face of the Earth was utterly different prior to the Global flood that reshaped the planet.
(I understand that you used Singapore and Quito just to describe two places on opposite sides of the globe.)

Thus, what we actually have, is an account from the One who was there and made everything, and saw it all occur at His command, “let there be…” ; " and there was…",
thus there is no need to agonize over what view or genre or call it whatever you want, may or may not have been in vogue at the time the human author inspired by God wrote down what he did.

Although the Theistic evolutionists will argue this and that, but to no avail, the Bible translations, all 63 that I listed and no doubt a great many more, after very, very careful consideration of all relevant factors, wrote the words that we have in the Bible.
I trust their endeavours are a true and faithful translation of the surviving original manuscripts, and there is no room for anything other than six ordinary days as we know them, the sun goes down, the sun comes up and there is another day.
There was evening and there was morning, one day.
God has ensured the Bible is understandable to the masses for all times in history. That is another one of the profound things about the Bible that sets it apart from all other books.
It is Truth!

The One and Only Living God is more than capable of having the author write down precisely what He wanted to tell humanity from then to now and to the end in the future. God is not limited by what some people now seem to think people back then knew or didn’t know! God is omniscient, He knew exactly what everyone on this site would write before the Creation. He is not limited by space or time or the limited understanding of us humans.

It is only if you have a ‘deep time’ worldview that there is even the slightest need to try and convince people that a plain straightforward reading of the text isn’t what God is telling us.
That is, the twisting of the clearly read historical account to make it say something that will accommodate millions and billions of years.
That is why some on this site continue to beat the same drum that accommodates a belief in ‘deep time’ and evolution, whether or not they realise that is what they are doing, I do not know. Of course they will vehemently deny this!

But that is how I see it.

God Bless,
jon

Although the Theistic evolutionists will argue this and that

I’ve already said to you a few times not to bring “evolution” theory. I’m YEC. I’m not evolutionist, Jon.

That’s because you take my words as historical narrative, Jon.
Singapore VS Quito is my example way to say that day&night happen simultaneously on earth.
Let’s forget about Singapore VS Quito.

when the Sabbath shows up in Genesis 2:2, it picks up the same order of counting a day. It started in the evening . https://www.askanadventistfriend.com/adventist-beliefs/sabbath/why-is-the-sabbath-from-sundown-to-sundown/

Gen 2:2 (YEC version)
On Sabath God had finished his work

Gen 1:1 (YEC version)
On Sunday God created the heavens and the earth

YEC version:
when Sunday shows up in Genesis 1:1, it picks up the same order of counting a day . It started in the evening

So… it is the same thing that YEC say:
“the first hour of the whole spherical earth Day-1 started in Sunday evening.”

But YEC don’t have an evidence that in current history, “day” on the whole earth started at sunset.

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Hi Reko, thanks for your thoughts on this.
No, I don’t take your words as historical narrative.
I realise that you are not an evolutionist, as indeed neither am I, but this website is hosted by Biologos which is probably one of the major Theistic evolution organisations in the US at least, thus when answering your question, it is relevant to explain why unnecessarily complicating Genesis appears to me to be happening, which is to accommodate both ‘deep time’ and ‘evolution’.

I think you misunderstand me, I was agreeing with you, and letting you know I understand why you used that example. (I understand that you used Singapore and Quito just to describe two places on opposite sides of the globe.)

When the first Day started or finished I do not know, except to say that whenever it was, at the end of the day, a normal day had elapsed and then the second Day started and so on.

I do not need to know the hours, it is sufficient for me to know that God created as described in Genesis 1 in six ordinary days as the Bible text clearly tells us.

It appears to commence in the evening and carry through the night and following morning and daytime period until the evening which marks the the end of the first day. But I would not be dogmatic about this nor do I think it matters a great deal.

The main message is that God created the Creation in a specific order according to His wisdom. Thus He is Lord, just as the potter making the pot can decide what he will do with the pot, or the artist can decide what he will do with the painting, how much more is the Living God who is the Creator who made everything including time, Lord of all that exists.

God Bless,
jon

Deep time is not just some aside that scientists believe in. It is an incidental working reality of research, and underlying basis of thousands of published papers every year. Apart from the context of deep time, everything published by Antarctic researchers is gibberish, all astrophysicists perpetuate nonsense, population genetics is falsehood, and the publication catalog of the US Geological Service is vile and false. In participating in this scientific work, individual scientists are contributing to the body of understanding of the processes which form the history of our world; and when you assert that the established age of the earth and evolution is a deceitful lie, the implication is that these scientists are collectively and individually complicit in lying.

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It’s clear to me that evolution is a deceitful lie misleading millions away from the truth of the scriptures; particularly the historical reading of Genesis

It is true that people can be mislead away from scripture by evolution, but that does not make it a lie. It just means that they don’t know how evolution lines up with scripture.

I didn’t know until about a year or so ago. I grew up a Christian believing YEC, fell a way as a teenager and then became an atheist and believed evolution must be true. I didn’t know enough about either evolution or the Bible though. A few years later I was led back to the faith by my wife who believed Gap Creation. As I started reading the Bible more I found problems with that and moved on to Day-Age Creation. I read the Bible through and studied it, often being drawn back to Genesis believing there is something I’m missing. I debated against evolution for a few years but things didn’t line up and I didn’t know how to deal with the evidence supporting it. I was fighting a losing battle and I started to fall away again. I held on to what little faith I had but was drawn into sin, addiction and was defeated. …Over 10 years past. I was at rock bottom, in marriage counseling with church pastors. They were just sharing their testimony but did not judge me. That’s when the Holy Spirit came upon me. I saw that I was like a dead fish washed up on the beach with Satan’s hooks in my mouth. It was now time, it was high tide!.. and the Spirit washed over me like waves and Jesus delivered me, pulling the hooks out!

That was about 3 years ago. I picked the Bible back up right where I left off and He started showing me the things I was missing. The Genesis account of creation days lines up almost perfectly with an evolutionary timeline.

See my post here: Is there a standpoint from which the creation days in Genesis 1 are described as 24 hours per day? - #445 by graft2vine

Posters, I know it seems when your position is attacked, that it is a personal affront, but please avoid labeling people and making blanket statements about the intent and sincerity of their positions. That is, do not call them names like liars and such, but if you feel they make a false statement, address what makes it false. We have given latitude, but will start deleting and editing if such continues.

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Hi Ethan, thank you so much for your testimony, it is much appreciated!

My journey was quite different, I grew up in a Christian home and attended Sunday School and a Church of England Church regularly when I was quite young. When I was twelve I was presented with a KJV of the Bible with really thin rice paper pages.
I started reading that Bible then and thoroughly absorbed parts of the Old Testament and the whole of the New Testament.
In high school science we were taught that evolution was a theory of how the diversity of life came to be, but it wasn’t rammed home as a fact, it was presented as a possibility. Nevertheless, I accepted it into my worldview and just thought, evolution is the tool that God used to create the diversity of life on Earth.
Since I could read, I have always believed that the Creation week was six normal days and Noah’s flood was global as that is precisely what the Bible said and I trusted the Bible as God’s Word.
But I had accepted evolution as the means that God used to create the diversity of life on Earth, thus I de facto believed in the millions and billions of years, and as it subsequently turned out, I fell away a bit from the Lord in my late teens; life got in the way and I stopped going to Church. I still believed in the existence of God, but didn’t read much of the Word of God anymore.

Then a friend I was surfing with, said that he had heard there was a free movie at a local community hall one day after we had been surfing in a massive swell on the Australian East coast in the early 1970’s. He didn’t know what the movie was called but it was free and so we drove to a community hall on our way home from the surf; the movie turned out to be “The Cross and the Switchblade”.
At the end of the movie a man got up out the front of the hall and started preaching about Salvation through Jesus. What he was saying resonated with me and he invited people to come out the front, I’m generally a quiet person who doesn’t like to be in the spotlight and I did not want to go out the front, but I found myself walking down the central isle to the front and knew in my heart there and then that God was present, and I was standing before Him, I saw myself for the first time as I really was, i.e., an utterly worthless sinner that was as filthy rags before His Holiness, and not worthy of His great love for me, I was filled with the Holy Spirit and saved there and then with many tears of repentance and joy.
The young Church pastor was a true man of God who went on in his ministry to lead tens of thousands to Salvation in the coming decades from that time.

When I was in my early twenties I had returned from working on a prawn trawler in the Gulf of Carpentaria, Australia, I was walking up the main drag of a very busy shopping street, in suburban Sydney at about 10 am on a Saturday. There were heaps of people on the footpath going up and down right and left, and I was handing out small mainstream Church ‘tracts’ that spoke of the Salvation of Jesus. The Holy Spirit was with me, I saw all the people around me as amazing eternal beings who God loves, rather than the human throng that I would normally see. I was way down the bottom of the hill end of the shops on the street, as I slowly made my way up the hill toward the Railway Station.
I had handed out quite a few tracts and when I was about two hundred yards from the Station end, the hundreds of people on the footpath momentarily parted and I could see a man sitting in a wheelchair in the distance. The Holy Spirit was with me, and I was praying silently in my head as I walked southwards up the gentle hill.
The man in the wheelchair was looking straight ahead across Victoria Ave to the opposite footpath, I was praying when I saw him and instantly his head swung 90 degrees to the right and he was looking straight at me. I was a bit shocked, as I somehow knew in my spirit that he was looking straight at me. Then the crowds of people closed the line of sight and he was gone from view. I continued walking up the footpath handing out the tracts and praying.
Again the people parted momentarily and the man in the wheelchair had his eyes fixed on me. The crowds moved and he was gone from view again. This happened more as I came closer and the distance decreased, when I was about 50 yards from him, there were less people and I could see that he was watching my every move, I could also see that he was severely handicapped, he had a tray in the front of his wheelchair with something on it that people were taking and dropping money into a tin he was holding. When I reached him, I could see real terror in his eyes, I did not know what to do and I just walked past, with his contorted gaze fixed on me his head turned as I walked past. I turned and looked back and he was still watching me, and only me, out of the hundreds of shoppers all around. I was just ordinarily dressed, nothing special, nothing to make me stand out except that I was walking in the Spirit, and I believe his spirit recognized that.
Looking back from so far in the future, I now know I should have stopped and prayed for him, but I was young, probably a bit embarrassed as young people like me can tend to be. Anyway, I later went home that day, but always clearly remember that as it is something that doesn’t usually happen to anyone let alone me.

Years went by, and I remained a Bible believing Christian. I went to different Churches over the years as my work moved me around, including Church of England, Presbyterian and Baptist Churches in different towns I lived in for a few years for work.

I got married and had children and we bought our first little house. We later discovered after living there for a little while that we had a retired missionary and his wife next door, he had been a Methodist Minister and missionary in India for many years.
After a few years, I fell away from the faith a fair bit just through being so busy raising a family and working long hours paying off a mortgage.
At some point my next door neighbour, Gordon, gave me a book called “The Transforming Friendship” that jolted me back to thinking more about what really matters in this life, the Lord God, Jesus who I knew was real and true, and Loved me, so I started reading the Bible again and shared with my wife (who was raised as a Christian and who always believed in Jesus), and our children about the Lord.

Then one day I went surfing with a another mate at Copacabana Beach, NSW Australia during a big cyclone swell averaging roughly 15’ plus.
I haven’t told many people ever about this because I guess they may think I’m nuts.
The beach was deserted with driving rain and a bit of wind.
I was out in the surf with a mate and we had surfed and surfed for hours catching monster waves all to ourselves. My mate decided to go in as it was getting late, it was still driving rain, overcast, dull and well after 5:00 in the afternoon. My wife was at home with our children who were infants in Primary School.
Anyway, I decided to get a few more waves by myself before I went in.
I saw my mate drive away in his Kombi van leaving only my car in the carpark facing the surf. I was all alone out there, and a nice big set of waves came, so I caught one and had a brilliant ride. As the wave hit deep water again (because it was breaking way out between the distant headlands of Copacabana and McMasters Beaches and then reforming for a massive shore break of about ten foot with a hugely thick lip that pounded into the sand like a sledgehammer), I decided I’d had enough for the day and I paddled towards the deserted rain swept beach.
I was wearing a steamer, so I was quite warm but tired from the constant paddling because the currents were very strong. I arrived at the shore break and decided that I didn’t want to go over the falls with my board strapped to my leg, so I took my legrope off and thrust my board onto the next wave to come past. The board disappeared then appeared up on the sand and swung around as the wave receded, but the fin grabbed on the sand and it stayed on the shoreline.
All I had to do was take off and body surf to the beach. So with a few freestyle strokes I was onto the next wave that came through, out I went into the air, then with a washing machine crash I hit the very steep dredged sand beachside and got dragged down into dark deep turbulent aerated water that didn’t afford buoyancy until it has finished fizzing.
Finally after what seemed like an eternity I popped up a little further out than where I had taken off from, about fifty yards further down the beach from where my board was still washing around on the edge of the water. So I tried again and again, I don’t remember how many times it was but each time I was weaker and getting very tired treading water, to stay afloat. I tried again, I was half way to McMasters headland and over the falls I went, then down into a very deep channel of aerated water, then dark water with a down current pinning me ever deeper despite my struggle to fight my way to the surface for air, it was pitch black and cold and I had no energy left to struggle anymore and it hit me.
I fully realised that I am going to die right there and right now. The thing that remains with me the most about that moment is that I was not at all afraid, I was curious to see what happened next, I was sad that I wouldn’t see my little family anymore, but at the same time I was interested in what was about to happen.
The water was all around me and I was being carried out into even deeper water because I could feel the pressure on my ears, I knew that I couldn’t hold my breath for much longer then like a light being switched on out of somewhere within me, I cried out in my mind, “Jesus, help me!”
As soon as I had thought those words, I felt an enormous wave of water lifting me somehow from the deep dark depths that I was in, then after a little while I burst into the dim light of the late afternoon sky and was then hurtling half in the wave and half through the air and then I hit the sand and grabbed it, digging my hands in as I had done each time previously but this time I stuck, the dredging water let go of me and receded and I was left far enough up the sand with screaming lungs soaking in the air. I lay on the water’s edge sucking in air for a few minutes recovering then got up and slowly walked northward back up the beach to my board that was still swirling around on the edge as waves hit it again and again. I collected it and walked up to the car, knowing that what had just happened was more than chance or coincidence.
I know that I was saved that day by my Lord and Saviour, Jesus.

I was not sure about how to interpret parts of the Bible I wasn’t sure about, and I prayed for the Lord to give me wisdom. Some time went by and some good old kind and honest friends that we hadn’t seen for years, who were in the Salvation Army came to visit the farm that my wife and I had bought, and they left us with three Creation magazines, that was in the early 1990’s. I read the magazines thoroughly and realized that the Bible was saying the exact same thing, that the Earth was about six thousand years old, the Creation week was six normal days and Noah’s flood was global that perfectly explained how most of the vast continental scale extents of sedimentary strata and fossils came to exist.
My eyes were opened and I saw evolution as the intruder that had deceived me for so many, many years.
I eventually subscribed to Creation Magazine and sought out more information on this subject. I have a science background and understand the basics of physics, chemistry and biology, thus I was able to gain an informed view of the issues in contention by those who hold to evolution.
I have come to understand the meaning of the Scripture in this present time:
“For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.” Ephesians 6:12
and I know that many of the world’s most powerful economic, educational and mass media organisations are ultimately controlled by darkness that seeks to deceive as many as it can from the Truth and Salvation offered by our Loving Lord Jesus.

As I have stated many times, this is a battle for the hearts and minds of people who will interpret what they see in accord with and dependent upon their worldview.

May God Bless, you Ethan,
jon

  • Nice try Reko, but your assumption that Day 1 started “in Sunday evening” has no legs to stand on, IMO. The Hebrew 1st Day started with Darkness; Stars and planets, Sun and Moon, weren’t even in the sky. Seems to me that there wouldn’t have been sunrises and sunsets, no?
  • Dry land and plants didn’t appear until the third day.
  • It’s not until the Moon “appears to travel through the sky over Earth” and the fourth day, beginning in the Darkness before the first Sunrise occurs, that seasons, days, and years begin. Adam and Eve don’t exist yet; so there’s nothing around to even imagine calling the 1st Day Sunday.
  • Burrawang certainly doesn’t seem to be an astronomer, weatherman, farmer, or even a gardener, which would explain his readiness to dismiss “unnecessary complications”
  • Burrawang says: “When the first Day started or finished I do not know, except to say that whenever it was, at the end of the day, a normal day had elapsed and then the second Day started and so on.”
  • Question: In order to begin to talk about “normal days”, don’t you need a Sunset and a Sunrise–both of which are colloquial terms for illusionary phenomena? I can’t imagine “a normal day” beginning before there is at least one Sun and maybe on Moon.
  • Burrawang says: “I do not need to know the hours.” I think your conversation with Burrawang ends there, don’t you?
  • Excuse me for asking: But doesn’t Genesis 1:14-19 seem to suggest that Earth was created before all the other stars and lights in the Universe?

All of Scripture is God breathed; our gracious Lord went to the effort of informing us about the Creation with details of the time it took to create the various constituents of the Creation, i.e., one day for each.
He did not complicate it, a child can understand the text; I know that to be true, because when I was a child I understood it as six ordinary days.
There is absolutely not any need whatsoever to complicate what has been so utterly clearly written.

Our Lord Who is the Creator, was there and He does not tell us anymore other than six days elapsed, and what the constituents of the Creation week were, and on what day they were created. There is no need to know anymore than that in my opinion.

Our omniscient and omnipotent Creator is more than capable of plainly informing us of what He did at Creation so that we may be informed. He does not need a sun or a moon to inform us when He Created the Earth and Heaven which He tells us was on the first day.

1 In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth.
2 The earth was without form and void, and darkness was over the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God was hovering over the face of the waters.
3 And God said, “Let there be light,” and there was light.
4 And God saw that the light was good. And God separated the light from the darkness.
5 God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And there was evening and there was morning, the first day.
Genesis 1:1-5

God Bless,
jon

Jon, Thank you, that was a great testimony! I truly believe it was Jesus that saved you that day and find it interesting that both our testimonies involve waves. While we have a different worldview, Jesus saves us through faith.

  • Heb 11:1-6 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. For by it the elders obtained a good testimony. By faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that the things which are seen were not made of things which are visible.
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Methinks thou dost protest too much. :Wake me up when you want talk about the Shroud of Turin, “The Problem of The Now”, or Genetic Genealogy. zzz:

Not in the text.

Not in the text.

Sounds like early medieval metaphysical meandering; has no basis in the text.

That’s also not from the text.

The “image of God” is not a quality in us at all, it is a status that comes from being human. The first Creation account is a temple inauguration story, and the “image of God” is the ‘statue’ God put in His new temple to represent Him. It is a responsibility, but it is also a status we cannot revoke; we will be judged on how well we “imaged” God.

No, let’s not – you can’t pluck elements out of a story and just plop them down where you want. Assuming we take the opening Creation account as history (it isn’t), the sixth day ended a very long time before Genesis 6.

Besides being sloppy math, this is total science fiction.

Okay, so you’re saying they are the ones lying, they were lied to and are just passing it on?

Perhaps that is the case with many, but I knew too many science folks in biology who challenged things every step of the way and only agreed that evolution is true because the evidence was overwhelming to think that your explanation is universal. That said, you should be more clear so we don’t see something you didn’t say.

That doesn’t match my experience at university at all: it was YEC that led hundreds to abandon the faith because students had been taught that if there were any scientific errors in Genesis then the whole Bible must be wrong – and since Genesis is not geologically accurate (among other things) if read in the YEC fashion they did exactly what their pastors had primed them to do, they ditched the whole Bible. And meanwhile students who had not been brought up YEC just kept on believing no matter what the science said.

The difference was that one group was told that Genesis was the foundation while the other had been taught that Christ was the foundation. And I was privileged to be there for a few of the first set when their crisis hit, and I could lead them over into the second set.

I think it should be noted that it was the YEC thinking that produced Bart Ehrman and his crusade against the Bible: he kept noticing flaws, errors, and finally did what the YEC logic said – he abandoned his faith. If he had been taught correctly that God is in charge regardless of any errors, today he might be a mighty scholar for the Gospel instead of a critic making exaggerated claims to sell books.

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