@Realspiritik this topic might interest you.
2 Likes
Funny that many evangelical Christians feel a need to avoid mysticism when Christianity is a mystical religion in the first place. I mean, our Lord Jesus Christ was in a sense, a mystical figure who had supernatural powers to preforms miracles.
2 Likes
Thanks, @MarkD, for wondering if I’d be interested in this topic. I am, as always, drawn to discussions about mysticism, though am in the midst of clearing out my parents’ home after 52 years of collecting too much of everything, so don’t have a lot of time.
Every religion at every time in history has an assortment of practising mystics. This is because mysticism is a natural part of the human experience. It’s not common, to be sure, but it’s there, hardwired into our DNA just like other oddities of the human genome. There are probably more mystics in the world today than people who have tetrachromacy (another interesting genetic anomaly that affects how people see and relate to the world), but genuine mystics are nothing to be ashamed of or shunned. Mystics have a role to play within human society, though at present we’re marginalized and treated like pariahs because there’s so little understanding of what mysticism is.
It’s really just an extension of normal human intuition, though for the individuals who have fried their own intuitive brain circuitry, this won’t mean much. For a mystic, the impressions of God’s presence (impressions that many people have at one time or another) are heightened and more consistent. Just as some people have an incredible ear for musical tones, and can pick out nuances the rest of us can’t hear, a mystic is someone whose “inner hear” is highly attuned to God’s Voice. This doesn’t make a mystic better than anyone else (and in fact being a mystic presents many challenges that non-mystics don’t have to deal with), but it does mean mystics have a perspective on Creation that has the potential to help others better understand their own relationship with God.
Mysticism isn’t the same thing as revelation. Nor is it the same thing as prophecy. In addition, there are several different kinds of mysticism, including apophatic mysticism (the main trend in the East), anagogic mysticism (more common in the Abrahamic religions), a blending of apophatic and anagogic (for example, the apostle Paul), and cataphatic mysticism (well represented in the Bible by Job and Jesus). I myself am a cataphatic mystic.
A major problem with the study of mysticism is, of course, the overlap that sometimes takes place between major mental illness and reports of mystical experiences. This overlap is to be expected and treated with caution and compassion. There are definitely many instances where reported experiences have been caused by biological hallucinations and delusions (to name two possible factors among several). But other cases where the Veil partially lifts aren’t so easy to explain.
The brain and central nervous system are the biological firmament in which the seeds of mysticism are planted, so the way you treat your biological brain will always affect how you perceive and process mystical experiences. If you treat your brain badly (filling it up with dangerous substances and dangerous ideas), you can’t honestly expect your brain to understand what it feels like to know God’s loving presence.
Some mystical traditions (especially those based on apophatic traditions) try to create a considerable distance between reason and faith, forcing you to choose one over the other. In my own experience of God, however, the guidance I’ve received has always emphasized the balance between Heart and Mind, faith and reason, Creation and Self. So some mystics actually believe more in integration than in transcendence.
In short . . . mysticism is complicated!
1 Like
Dear Reggie,
What I speak about often could be labeled as mysticism, but the term is imprecise in my opinion. When a Christian says they are filled with the Holy Spirit, they are claiming to be a mystic and claiming special religious knowledge. Also, all of the prophets could be called mystics, as they had dreams, visions and other concealed communications with God.
But there is only one version of mysticism allowed in the Bible, as per 1 John 4. This is not a concealed revelation, but a testable revelation that Jesus promises. By testing the spirits openly, no one person can claim special knowledge and raise themselves above the others in the community.
Best Wishes, Shawn
Oh what the heck, I’ll share it here. Hopefully I haven’t already done so multiple times. In Still Life With Woodpecker the author touches on “the mystery” in a humorous novel which muses on how to make love stay. Not to take anything away from those aiming higher than the mundane love of human relations. I know I did recently share Blake’s poem Eternity on Laura’s poetry thread and I agree with him on the futility of grasping joy. Anyhow, Tom Robbins on why we seek to “make love stay”.
“When the mystery of the connection goes, love goes. It’s that simple. This suggests that it isn’t love that is so important to us but the mystery itself. The love connection may be merely a device to put us in contact with the mystery, and we long for love to last so that the ecstacy of being near the mystery will last. It is contrary to the nature of mystery to stand still. Yet it’s always there, somewhere, a world on the other side of the mirror (or the Camel pack), a promise in the next pair of eyes that smile at us. We glimpse it when we stand still.
The romance of new love, the romance of solitude, the romance of objecthood, the romance of ancient pyramids and distant stars are means of making contact with the mystery. When it comes to perpetuating it, however, I got no advice. But I can and will remind you of two of the most important facts I know:
- Everything is part of it.
- It’s never too late to have a happy childhood.”
― Tom Robbins, Still Life with Woodpecker
3 Likes
Or it has to do with the fact that Eastern Christianity is a thing, and is an important part of Church history that many Western Christians are entirely ignorant of.
1 Like
I tend to be more of an apophaticist, though not dogmatically. Since God is a perfect, transcendent being, we demean him by giving him worldly qualities.
This is exactly the sort of Anti-Mysticism I mean:
If quieting and emptying your mind helps you to focus on God, why is it bad? (I do not imply that I endorse any new age practices)
Dear Reggie,
There is nothing bad about this, and not eh contrary, that is how we become closer to God and His Spiritual World.
But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret; and thy Father which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly. Matt 6:6
We are encouraged to create a personal relationship with God and we can only do this in silence, by ridding our minds of thoughts of this world. I find guided mediations quite helpful for this purpose and this is one of my favorites.
Best Wishes, Shawn
1 Like
Hey there. I’m responding to the initial post. It’s been awhile since I posted anything here. I’ve gone through some massive deconstruction, feel a bit homeless spiritually, and I am on the brink of deconverting from Christianity all together. I say that because as I’ve been searching out ways to move forward in the Christian faith I have engaged with people like Richard Rohr, The Liturgists, Pete Enns, etc. They all embrace, to one degree or another, some form of mysticism/contemplative practice. I definitely think it has a place and it isn’t flirtation with the devil, so to speak. Mysticism has always existed in the Christian tradition.
BUT…
In my opinion, mysticism leads to a dead end, especially for people like myself. Many of us are longing for some experience of God. We take up certain practices espoused by trusted thought-leaders and church practitioners and, at least in my case, things don’t ‘work.’ It leaves an even bigger hole in our longing hearts. For me, mysticism/contemplation has nudged me further into agnosticism because 1) I’m either doing it wrong and so God doesn’t honor that or 2) God isn’t there.
I do think that there is a place for it though and if it helps you feel closer to God then that’s awesome.
I hope that is helpful!
2 Likes
Hi Austin, good to see you again, and I can relate to what you’re saying. On one extreme I’ve seen Christian groups that basically infer that if you don’t have a legitimate emotional/physical “experience,” you’re not really a Christian. But on the other end, there is sometimes so much suspicion of any practice deemed too “emotional” that it can be hard to know what to expect and how to even begin to “practice” such a thing. Sometimes group practice within religious communities can be more helpful than just hearing “You should do x once in a while” from the pulpit.
Anyway, I’ve felt similarly, that I must be “doing it wrong.” I seem to like formulas, and that’s what many leaders like to give, but sometimes it feels like a diet book, where what seems like it should “work” just doesn’t sometimes, and there is temptation to jump from fad to fad. I have to remember that God is bigger than my experiences and I don’t think he is dishonored if I seek him as best I can with whatever odd combination of intellect and emotions he’s given me.
Blessings as you work through the complexities of faith.
3 Likes
Completely agree.
It seems that there are several ways to approach mystery. In “The Chosen,” Reuven, a relatively secular Jew, and Danny, a Hasid, take opposite paths–Danny deconstructs from his father’s almost cultish mysticism to become a psychologist, and Reuven becomes a rabbi (albeit with a healthy questioning of the inerrancy of the Scriptures).
Perhaps more to the Western fear of mysticism is an abhorrence of what obfuscates truth and causes pride. G K Chesterton was not a fan of some kinds of mysticism, for example, and 2 quotes stick in my mind about the pride and Gnosticism (one extreme) which he shied away from. Both, however, are the very extremes–I think that that is what some evangelicals fear. I don’t think it’s the majority of mysticism, but it’s the anti-intellectual type:
"I know something about Satanism, for my sins; I’ve been forced to know. I know what it is, what it practically always is. It’s proud and it’s sly. It likes to be superior; it loves to horrify the innocent with things half understood, to make children’s flesh creep. That’s why it’s so fond of mysteries and initiations and secret societies and all the rest of it. Its eyes are turned inwards, and however grand and grave it may look, it’s always hiding a small, mad smile.”
“I spare you,” said the Duke in a voice of inhuman pity. “I refuse. If I gave you the faintest hint of the load of horror I have to bear alone, you would lie shrieking at these feet of mine and begging to know no more. I will spare you the hint. You shall not spell the first letter of what is written on the altar of the Unknown God.” “I know the Unknown God,” said the little priest, with an unconscious grandeur of certitude that stood up like a granite tower. “I know his name; it is Satan. The true God was made flesh and dwelt among us. And I say to you, wherever you find men ruled merely by mystery, it is the mystery of iniquity. If the devil tells you something is too fearful to look at, look at it. If he says something is too terrible to hear, hear it. If you think some truth unbearable, bear it."
Roger Scruton hypothesized that religion is an attempt to fill in our unknowns. I’m not sure; certainly, we search for God as a filler for our vast emptiness. We bring our own iniquities into that search, if we’re not careful–that’s why I kind of like the Dallas Willard mysticism, where one tries to focus, to expense of today’s world, on what surpasses in goodness and truth. But there’s a lot I don’t know about the human psyche.
3 Likes
True that, Quinn. And it is arguably an Eastern religion. We have Westernized Christianity at some points to where it is almost unrecognizable. It seems that we want to rationalize things and use apologetics to make everything nice and reasonable, and forget that the basis of Christianity is God becoming man born of a virgin, dying and returning from the grave to reign as king. Sort of bizarre and definitely mystic.
4 Likes
Just had a thought: wouldn’t prayer be considered a mystical experience?
4 Likes
I found this BBC interview of a monk who describes prayer as freedom.
1 Like
Existence is a mystery. Mystical. A mystical experience. Experience is mystical. I can’t see any place for the non-mystical. The compulsion for meaning leads in to the myst.
1 Like
Thanks Randy. I agree with this guy both on the particulars of what he says and in the spirit of what he means. Silence, listening, letting go and not giving in to the temptation to assert yourself all free up room for something more to be present and to be noticed. It is hard to notice much when you are working hard to shape what others notice.
I’m not sure I know exactly what he means by prayer or the eternal but obviously for anything to be the eternal it must always be present. The question is will we be present, will we notice? If we ardently wish for that maybe that is prayer?
Yes, I like that reflection. Thanks.
I think that is a good observation. I agree that prayer doesn’t have to be verbalized. Thanks.
1 Like
A fascinating discussion. I’m glad it “just appeared” again in the last day or so.
Mysticism feels like dangerous waters to this member of the so-called “Frozen Chosen” [white, calvinistic Protestant]. I’ve read Willard’s “Celebration of the Disciplines” and Calvin Miller’s book on Christian spiritual disciplines which I no longer have and can’t name. While their vocabulary was familiar, my reaction to many of their concepts was extreme caution and the feeling of “Here be dragons.” Feeling at home in a fairly cerebral, outwardly non-demonstrative and doctrinally-guarded spiritual practice (rooted in Puritanism), the idea of mysticism feels dangerous to me, like the theological guardrails have been removed.
That being said, prayer (i.e. talking to God silently, out-loud, in song, in my words, in the read word of Scripture, in some other words like “The Valley of Vision”, etc.) and rumination on a texts of Scripture, hymns, written prayers and the like don’t strike me as mystical at all. It’s common Christian practice in my mind. However, they’re also practices I need to do more of and regularly.
Not long ago, @MarkD and I had been chatting about the use and development of intuition, which I had not thought of as fitting the category of mysticism. Apparently, the boundaries of the concept are somewhat different from my assumptions.
(Valley of Vision book: The Valley of Vision by Arthur Bennett | Banner of Truth USA
And web version:
The Valley of Vision Archives - Banner of Truth USA)
1 Like