TRUE! ‘I’ am a piece of flotsam bobbing on my own ocean.
Thomas Jay Oord | Uncontrolling Love - BioLogos
Jim Stump and Thomas Jay Oord talk about the problem of evil.
TRUE! ‘I’ am a piece of flotsam bobbing on my own ocean.
Well I speculate that our role is quite important. Learning to reason and use language well is up to us. I see it as a partnership even if I am the minor partner. But the vessel would surely sink if I threw my hands up in an effort to turn it all over to my better half. What we do matters too.
Aye, but we don’t do much. Collectively, let alone individually. The elephant herd behaviour is the morality of us all. I.e., not much in our natural ignorance. We forgot the gospel almost before we knew it.
Sorry for my shorthand. I skipped to the end of a long chain of reasoning (and evolution) without much explanation. By “unified whole” I don’t mean singularity or uniformity, but access (neural networks). Globularity was the final link in a chain of events that led to the modern human brain.
I’m not surprised that globularity is new to you. It’s a recent discovery. The first mention that I saw of it was a 2014 article on The shape of the human language-ready brain. “The evolution of modern human brain shape” study is from 2018, as is the article on Reconstructing the Neanderthal brain using computational anatomy. That is the key piece to read to understand the implications of a globular brain. Highlights of the article are (NT = Neanderthal):
Unlike complex neuronal networks in the cerebrum, the cerebellar neural circuit (module or microcomplex) is anatomically simple and uniform. As the cerebellar hemisphere contains many of these modules, a larger cerebellar volume is directly correlated with larger number of the modules, and therefore with higher language processing and larger working memory capacity. Language processing refers to the ability to produce and comprehend sounds and signs, which enables shared communication between individuals. Working memory is a temporary memory storage and executive information processing system used for cognitive abilities such as learning and reasoning. In addition, these functional modules can encode essential properties of mental representation in the cerebrum for various cognitive activities, possibly leading to the correlation between the size-adjusted cerebellar volume and the ability of executive functions. Thus, Homo sapiens with relatively larger cerebellar hemispheres may possess higher cognitive and social functions.
In conclusion, we found that NT had significantly relatively smaller cerebellar hemispheres than Homo sapiens, particularly on the right side. Larger cerebellar hemispheres were related to higher cognitive and social functions including executive functions, language processing and episodic and working memory capacity. Based on archaeological records, Wynn and Coolidge suggested that NT had a smaller capacity of working memory, which is also related to the capacity for cognitive fluidity proposed by Mithen. Moreover, such differences in the capacity for cognitive fluidity were hypothesized to mainly originate from language processing ability. Thus, the differences in neuroanatomical organization of the cerebellum may have resulted in a critical difference in cognitive and social ability between the two species. Consequently, ability to adapt to changing environment by creating innovation may have been limited in NT and this difference possibly affected their chance of survival and drove the replacement process.
Mithen theorized in his 1996 book The Prehistory of the Mind: The Cognitive Origins of Art, Religion and Science that early humans possessed a “modular” mind, but by 40,000 years ago we reached a state of “cognitive fluidity,” which was a seamless flow of information in the brain. Here’s a good talk of his that briefly explains his theory. It’s from 2013, so he doesn’t yet know that globularity has confirmed his thesis:
Wynne and Coolidge likewise put forward a theory about working memory that globularity supports. They hypothesized that an unknown (at the time) change to working memory “enhanced” it to allow greater language and symbolic capabilities. Here’s a 2012 video that connects their theory to the religious impulse:
Enough for now. We may be losing our audience. Haha
I wouldn’t dream of it with regard to God in Christ and by the Spirit. But nothing you or anyone else can name, except all being, all existing, from forever, is instantiated by God. Nothing in any one’s experience and thinking since the Incarnation and its first circle. Love is patient. It never interferes but Once.
You remind me of something Pascal said:
If there never had been any appearance of God, this eternal deprivation would have been equivocal, and might have as well corresponded with the absence of all divinity, as with the unworthiness of men to know Him; but His occasional, though not continual, appearances remove the ambiguity, If He appeared once, He exists always; and thus we cannot but conclude both that there is a God, and that men are unworthy of Him.
If God should appear once in history, as in Jesus Christ, then he is free to appear at any time in history, whenever he should desire. Love is certainly patient–witness the long history of life and humanity on this plant–but it does not follow that love only interferes once. Love doesn’t enforce its will, but love isn’t constrained by logic or proved by evidence. As Wittgenstein observed, how do you distinguish a truly loving glance from a feigned one? Only by experience. One could argue a collective delusion, but the universal (or nearly so) experience of humanity is that there is more to existence than it appears to our senses.
That really helps. Watched the first video and will check out the other which looks even more interesting. Thanks also for spoon feeding me some quotes. I will try to wrap my head around globularity soon.
It does seem as though developing the capacity for using and understanding symbols - distinct from markers or signs for direct correspondence opens the door to more fluid creativity and the development of religion.
Currently working on getting my new knee up and running and my ability to work in the garden and take walks with the dog is competing with pursuing intellectual pursuits. But I better make some headway in some books before the pandemic is behind us and social opportunities ‘intrude’ again.
But I better make some headway in some books before the pandemic is behind us and social opportunities ‘intrude’ again.
From many years working with the incarcerated, one of the blessings/curses of being isolated is too much free time to think, especially about the big subjects. Such as oneself. haha. Get that knee working.
That may color the way many of us remember this pandemic.
The knee is amazing. My final hurdles are walking downstairs without a rail and the incision looking good enough for getting into water. Being a Californian, I miss my hot tub and peacock feathers.
If God should appear once in history, as in Jesus Christ, then he is free to appear at any time in history, whenever he should desire. Love is certainly patient–witness the long history of life and humanity on this plant–but it does not follow that love only interferes once. Love doesn’t enforce its will, but love isn’t constrained by logic or proved by evidence. As Wittgenstein observed, how do you distinguish a truly loving glance from a feigned one? Only by experience. One could argue a collective delusion, but the universal (or nearly so) experience of humanity is that there is more to existence than it appears to our senses.
Nice on Pascal. As you know Jay, your first statement is a fallacy. God is obviously not free, has no capricious desire. His patience is eternal - but for The (desperately desired; He came as soon as He could, as soon as it would never be forgotten) Intervention - and Love is obviously (and thus) constrained by logic, by reality. The only evidence of Love is the gospel and that despite our Chinese Whispering of it, it stands, He stands, redeemed, clear, unambiguous, again. I see that glance. Otherwise humanity’s otherwise entirely natural experience - including of wanting and creating meaning - is meaningless. A loving glance in the pitch dark across the crevasse in the cave isn’t much use. As the gospel Himself said, blessed are those who have not seen - so much as a loving glance - but believe by the word: Only love is omnipotent. Love is all you need.
I miss my hot tub and peacock feather
Peacock feathers? Whaaat? I’m not sure of the cultural allusion. Best wishes in your healing!
At one time I heard a comedian stereotype Californians that way. So I thought it might be funny. But seriously my physical therapist tells me the lower half of the incision site still looks a little too cruddy for immersing in water. But showers are fine and I got rid of the chair. The new knee is great.
But we do have a hot tub and find it very therapeutic for achy old bodies.
Only love is omnipotent. Love is all you need.
You need to look into Thomas Jay Oord. He’s right up your alley:
Jim Stump and Thomas Jay Oord talk about the problem of evil.
Aye, not bad for Reformed. There’s hope at the end of the tunnel.
Careful the books you look at. Guns, Germs, and Steel was not written by a historian. In fact, its reputation among historians is pretty bad.
Careful the books you look at. Guns, Germs, and Steel was not written by a historian. In fact, its reputation among historians is pretty bad.
Yeah, it only won the Pulitzer Prize for general nonfiction and the Aventis Prize for Best Science Book.
I would guess that is because it aims for more a more of a broad sweeping look at how haves and have-nots come from where they do. Among historians I imagine the focus is generally much more narrow. But the question of why some cultures had so much more ‘cargo’ or material wealth than those they encountered elsewhere has fostered some eurocentric chauvinism in the past if not still today. It was good to let some air out of our inflated egos and recognize geographical luck for what it is. For we lay people pondering such a big question it was an incredible read.
Yeah, it only won the Pulitzer Prize for general nonfiction and the Aventis Prize for Best Science Book.
Thanks for the sarcastic response. I’m trying hard to see how you can consider this a “counter-argument”. Steven Pinker’s Better Angels of our Nature won the following awards:
And yet historians consider it complete garbage. Popular book awards, it turns out, aren’t a very good predictor of factual accuracy.
Flesh tearing eh? You’re entirely welcome. Again Pinker’s masterwork isn’t a history book.
Pinker’s masterwork isn’t a history book.
That’s right. It’s a work of fiction and detailed factual misrepresentation masquerading as factual analysis.
One student of historiography, Spencer Alexander McDaniel, wrote a detailed refutation of the book.
In our society we revere scientists far more than we revere historians. Consequently, people are often more willing to listen to what scientists say about history than what historians say about history. Unfortunately, often times, when scientists try...
Est. reading time: 67 minutes
Pinker has been one of the biggest promoters of disinformation in the last decade on the book scene.
Hi Daniel, I’ve read about half of Tim Keller’s “Making Sense of God”. It’s useful, particularly as a way to really think out the comparisons for life and society of believing in either God or holding onto a secular view. From the parts I’ve read so far though, it hasn’t addressed the crux of my questions here. I got the impression from reading the backs of this and “Reasons for God” that Making sense of God would be more what I’m after. Indeed, I went to the Christian bookstore in town last week and was pretty disappointed to find nothing along the lines of what I’m looking for (well, except for these two books of Keller’s out of perhaps 20 or so others).
This thread though is helpful - better than a bookstore. That said, I remain genuinely surprised no one has attempted to tackle something along the lines of what I’ve put out - even if only the first half perhaps. I actually suspect there would be quite a few atheist like writings about it … perhaps not as widely known here? Still, I feel the outcome of any honest examination wouldn’t be atheism - it would likely be some form of acceptance of something higher, something we don’t yet really understand but can know and relate to in different ways
“Let your conversation be always full of grace, seasoned with salt, so that you may know how to answer everyone.” -Colossians 4:6
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