Is theology ALWAYS reworked to fit science?

Quoting myself again, with just a few examples…

Ephraim the Syrian on the First Day: “Although both the light and the clouds were created in the twinkling of an eye, still both the day and the night of the First Day continued for twelve hours each.”

Basil’s Hexaemeron says that before the third day of creation, there was nо natural necessity for waters to flow downward until God’s command came. He also emphasizes the instantaneous nature of God’s creation. For example, on the Third Day: “At this saying all the dense woods appeared; all the trees shot up… Likewise, all the shrubs were immediately thick with leaf and bushy; and the so-called garland plants … all came into existence in a moment of time, although they were not previously upon the earth.”

Most Patristic authors embraced the instantaneous nature of creation.

Ambrose: When Moses says “In the beginning God created,” he intends to “express the incomprehensible speed of the work.” … “He (Moses) did not look forward to a late and leisurely creation of the world out of a concourse of atoms.” (Against Greek cosmology.)

Athanasius: “As to the separate stars or the great lights, not this appeared first, and that second, but in one day and by the same command, they were all called into being. And such was the original formation of the quadrupeds, and of birds, and fishes, and cattle, and plants… No one creature was made before another, but all things originate subsisted at once together upon one and the same command.”

Ephraim describes the activity of the Spirit on the First Day: “[The Holy Spirit] warmed the waters and made them fertile and capable of birth, like a bird when it sits with its outstretched wings on its eggs and by its warmth gives them warmth and produces fertility in them.” Regarding the Third Day, Ephraim says, “The herbs, at the time of their creation, were the productions of a single instant, but in appearance they appeared the productions of months. Likewise the trees, at the time of their creation, were the productions of a single day, but in their perfection and fruits, which weighed down the branches, they appeared the productions of years.”

Plants and trees appeared on earth, the Fathers repeatedly agree, before the very existence of the sun.

Chrysostom: “(Moses) shows you that everything was accomplished before the creation of the sun, so that you might ascribe the ripening of the fruits not to it, but to the Creator of the universe.”

Basil: “The adornment of the earth is older than the sun, that those who have been misled may cease worshipping the sun as the origin of life.”

Ambrose: “Before the light of the sun shall appear, let the green herb be born, let its light be prior to that of the sun. Let the earth germinate before it receives the fostering care of the sun, lest there be an occasion for human error to grow. Let everyone be informed that the sun is not the author of vegetation… . . How can the sun give the faculty of life-growing plants, when these have already been brought forth by the life-giving creative power of God before the sun entered into such a life as this? The sun is younger than the green shoot, younger than the green plant.”

Basil teaches that the “kinds” of Genesis are fixed to the end of time: “The nature of existing objects, set in motion by one command, passes through creation without change, by generation and destruction, preserving the succession of the kinds through resemblance, until it reaches the very end. It begets a horse as the successor of a horse, a lion of a lion, and an eagle of an eagle; and it continues to preserve each of the animals by uninterrupted successions until the consummation of the universe. No length of time causes the specific characteristics of the animals to be corrupted or extinct…”

Ambrose is even able to fix the month of the creation of heaven and earth using Scripture: “He created heaven and earth at the time when the months began, from which time it is fitting that the world took its rise. Then there was the mild temperature of spring, a season suitable for all things. Consequently, the year, too, has the stamp of a world coming to birth… In order to show that the creation of the world took place in the spring, Scripture says: “This month shall be to you the beginning of months, it is for you the first in the months of the year” (Ex. 12:2), calling the first month the springtime. It was fitting that the beginning of the year be the beginning of generation.”

It would be useful to delineate between various opinions found in Patristic writings and tenets of the Christian faith. Some pondered on what light may be, and how “days” may be “days of creation” and perhaps not our days - the teaching the God created, and John1 (through the power of the Word) doe not change or is modified in any way.

Many also referred to current opinion, and some may have stated a reference - we all tend to do that and I think the opinions expressed in this and other forum testify to that.

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… and neither is it if one views evolution as God’s chosen mechanism. :slight_smile:

We will have to differ on your decision that “it is God’s chosen …(anything)…”, but it is good that we both affirm God as Creator.

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In my own brief survey of some of the church Fathers, you summarize it well. It’s also worth repeating that they may have missed the mark on their speculations about the natural world, but they also laid the foundations of many essential Christian doctrines, as contained in the various creeds of the church. The important thing – the theology – they got substantially right. I have nothing but respect and reverence for the achievement of those men.

Going all the way back to the OP, I was thinking about the fact that “natural philosophy” was the pre-Baconian term for what we now call “science.” In antiquity, Plato and Aristotle are foundational figures for both science and philosophy. From the time of Alexander’s conquest to the time of Christ, Judaism was influenced by Greek thought and culture, as seen, for example, in Sirach. By the first century, we even find Philo of Alexandria attempting to synthesize Moses with Greek philosophy, which he believed had borrowed from the Bible.

What am I getting at? Good question. Haha. I provided an extremely small sample of the earliest expositors of Scripture interacting with “natural philosophy” in arriving at their interpretations, and it is indisputable that they took into account the “scientific” understandings that were current in their day, as @GJDS also has indicated. Philo was influential on Clement, Origen, Gregory of Nyssa, Ambrose, and Augustine. Augustine’s theology was heavily influenced by the neo-Platonists, and Aquinas by Aristotle.

In short, it seems to me that Christian interpreters of Scripture have “accommodated science” from the beginning, and it did not suddenly stop with the scholastics of the Middle Ages.

I would suggest that it is not the theology that is reworked, but the interpretation underlying the theology. As has been said already, the Patristic authors got the theology right, even if some details of their interpretations were wrong.

The problem with the “Scripture interprets Scripture” model is that it has been twisted into a closed system. No outside evidence or considerations are allowed to upset the applecart of settled opinion.

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I agree with your assessment, but I tend to see the speculations in a slightly different way. Most of the theologians were educated in Hellenic schools and thus they would be aware of the various philosophical schools of thought. Their approach seems to me to amount to, "are any of these all that relevant to the Christian faith? By and large they acknowledged the various outlooks and made comments that either (a) emphasised the Biblical view of creation, or (b) pointed out aspects that appeared pagan and thus non-biblical. Augustine’s insistence on Christians avoiding the appearance of ignorance regarding current philosophies comes to mind.

As you indicated, the distinction between what we now know as science, and the ideas of ancient natural theology, became sharp centuries after the Patristic writings. The fact that the Fathers discussed natural philosophy was then taken to mean this was the theology they taught, which is a weird distortion of the Patristic writings.

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I wonder why it is a special problem when we find we have to modify our theology because of an encounter with science.

Take science off the table for a moment. … Each time I come back to scripture, I see new things. Would I trade each day I gain new understanding of the word just to keep my old unaware understanding without change? Do I have a heart for God, or do I worship my special reading of a book?

Daily, we find new challenges to trusting God, having faith, and our hope in our salvation. In as much as scientific discoveries may challenge my ability to understand scripture, how is that different from the trials I encounter in the world on a daily basis? Those can be extremely faith shattering (if not killing) in a very hard moment. When God seems like an enigma, don’t we also find we have to refine our own theology to find our way back? There are plenty of things that really seem to make no sense whatsoever in the world, and we really would sound idiotic even bleating out those worthless platitudes of so-called “comfort”. What’s so special then about science?

Our job as scientists is to dig up the truth as best as we can discern it, and as Christians, we need to respect what it says, walk in faith, pray for wisdom, and bear onward trying to understand it if we find it challenging. Finally, in faith, we place our hope that somewhere there really is an answer.

Great is Thy faithfulness Oh God my father
There is no shadow of turning with Thee
Thou changest not, Thy compassions, they fail not;
As Thou hast been, Thou forever wilt be
Great is Thy faithfulness
Morning by morning, new mercies I see;
All I have needed, Thy hand hath provided
Great is Thy faithfulness, Lord onto me.

Sometimes, that is all we have to hang onto. It can sometimes seem like it gets down to atto-meters, but somehow there will be an answer at the end of the road.

by Grace we proceed

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Amen and amen. Thanks also for the shout-out to my all-time favorite hymn.

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