Yes, of course ID and/or creationism is/are not science. Neither is TE. Being secular is not partisan, it is neutral (agnostic) on all matters of religion, faith, anything supernatural or metaphysical.
Thank you very much for this insightful reply that goes far beyond my knowledge of the inner workings of the NCSE. It’s great to talk with people who are knowledgeable of the subject
Yes Eddie, thanks for the insights into the organizational politics of the group. Organizational DNA is always interesting to look at.
Perhaps you should investigate the Discovery Institute as well.
I have investigated the CSC in my book on creationism as well and I talk a little about them in the blog here on the BioLogos website. I think there are some structural(!) (not ideological) similarities to the NCSE’s position. ID has the same problem of having to fend off criticism from multiple sides, and they react in a similar way by splitting their message and developing a number of justifications where they sometimes emphasize one aspect of their program and sometimes others. (I think the CSC has an even harder job than the NCSE and they have to be more extreme in splitting their message - one might even speak of a case of cognitive dissonance.)
NCSE was founded by the Humanist movement. Which has openly and repeatedly stated that its purpose is to decimate theism and the Christian worldview.
As an Australian who lived and studied in the U.S. it has saddened me what has happened to America over the years since. Leftist liberal socialists and atheistic secularism has dominated the U.S. Supreme court decisions and taken over the media, education, and all public and State institutions, allowing no other. I sense that Trump, Carson and a growing number of Americans understands this, and the important role theism and the Christian worldview played in fostering honesty, good morals, cultural stability and the Protestant work ethic.
The problem is that Americans falsely regard atheist secularism of being religiously “neutral”. When in fact “secularism” is just another world for atheism. And was first used by hard core atheist and socialist George Jacob Holyoake as a substitute code word for atheism, because atheism was regarded as a negative word. Atheism and Secular Humanism are religions in the full sense of the word. A reality affirmed by the U.S. Supreme Court decisions. In Kaufman v. McCaughtry - 2005, the U.S. Supreme Court affirmed that atheism to be a “religion”. Stating it was “religious in nature even though it expressly rejects a belief in a supreme being.” As is the case with Zen Buddhism.
It is not a matter of whether or not you belong to a religion, but rather which religion you belong to. Because every worldview is founded on “metaphysical” religious beliefs above and beyond the limits of science and physics. This is true of Communism, Socialism and Secular Humanism, atheism any every other worldview on planet earth. Meaning, atheism is now the State religion. Atheism is a “religion” founded on unproven “blind faith” metaphysical religious beliefs of “philosophical” naturalism and godless materialism. The blind faith belief that ALL REALITY is solely the result of natural processes and godless causes alone. Based on the “blind faith” dogmatic assertion that science is the only real source of knowledge and truth. Which is the definition of “scientism”, not science. And this godless scientism is being imposed on every student in public education. And it is this that is now being imposed on students in science classes and public and private education.
Americans need to be reminded of the track record of Atheist Secular sociopolitical movements. Because millions of people have been brutally slaughtered by these godless sociopolitical movements. Starting with the thousands beheaded in the godless ideology of the French revolution; the millions brutally murdered by Communists in Russia, the millions brutally murdered Communists in China; the millions slaughtered by Pol Pot in the “killing fields” of Cambodia. It’s also worth mentioning the political and judicial activism of the Socialist-Humanist-Secular leftists has resulted in over 40 million infants have been butchered by abortionists, and torn apart so body parts can packaged for resale: Making ISIS terrorists and all others look like novices.
For over a thousand years theism and Christianity provided the foundation for cultures and nations, leading to the formation of western democracies, and the scientific resolution. Almost all the pioneers of modern science were Christians who operated within the theistic scientific framework and worldview. Which further provided the Westminster system of Government, with its checks and balances, and the social and moral stability underlying the Judaeo-Christian history and heritage of the Great Britain, Europe, America and other nations.
The atheistic Secularism now imposed by the judiciary and the State has undermined all this. The emblem of the United States is no longer “In God we Trust”, but in real terms is now “In Atheism we Trust”, And the world looks on as the United States goes into rapid sociopolitical and moral decline, burdened by debt.
Leftist liberal sociopolitical and judicial activism to undermine theism and Americas Christian history and heritage has had dire consequences. As are there for all to see. Atheistic Secularism has destroyed the social and moral foundations of western democratic cultures. Secularism has encouraged sexual liberation and permissiveness; destroyed the sanctity of marriage where marriage now stands for anything and everything; made divorce and serial relationships the norm; fragmented the family; spawned a generation of disorientated youth; opened the door to widespread drug addiction; fostered an environment where suicide is prevalent; promoted euthanasia; flooded the culture with pornography; fostered a climate of amoral relativism and situation ethics, and produced a culture that functions on a godless worldview and lifestyle “without God, spirituality and traditional religion”: With everyone force fed the notion that we live in an “indifferent” meaningless uncaring universe where everything is merely the product of unguided evolutionary chance mutations and blind natural selection.
Ironically, the world’s next superpower, China, has well noted the strategic role that the Protestant work ethic and related spirituality played in America becoming the world’s foremost superpower. As reported in the Weekend Australian Newspaper magazine, China is also aware that there are now more Christians in China than in the United States. With the Chinese government press is printing Bibles to foster cultural and moral stability, and generate income. The concern of the Communist party is that Christians now outnumber members of the Communist party. How this will dilemma works itself out only time will tell.
Whether Trump or Carter can restore the United States to the spiritual and cultural well-being provided by its Christian history and heritage is the big issue. If not, the the writing is on the wall. And America’s days as the worlds superpower are numbered - like it or not!.
Typical rant against people who chose to be non-theist and who want to uphold an America where the separation of Church and State is absolute.
How about “In Reason we Trust”
You forgot to mention Hitler and Stalin, rants about atheism always include Hilter and Stalin.
I think the number quoted since Roe v. Wade is 58 million. I guess according to you, no Christian woman in the United States have ever chose to terminate a pregnancy?
Somehow NCSE is related to abortion?
Where does it openly and repeatedly state these things?
The scientific resolution? Really? Maybe the Christian faith led to improvements in microscopes?
Carter has had his turn as president. And Trump is anything but spiritual–just look at how he couldn’t come up with a favorite Bible verse.
AIG didn’t like NCSE’s evolution material for pre-preschoolers.
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Very funny! But you know, St. Francis started perverting people in this fashion hundreds of years ago with his Canticle of the Creatures where he refers to “Brother Sun” and “Sister Moon.” Now, if you were a teenager at this time, wouldn’t you be tempted to drink moonshine?
Apologies, I meant Carson not Carter.
A simple google search “NSCE and Humanist” will show the connection. I can chase up the direct connection between NCSE and the Humanist movement if needed. Here is the statement regarding the Humanist agenda to destroyb Christianity.
“The battle for mankind’s future must be waged and won in the public school classroom by teachers who correctly perceive themselves as the proselytizers of a new faith . . . These teachers must embody the same selfless dedication as the most rabid fundamentalist preacher, for they will be ministers of another sort, utilising the classroom instead of the pulpit to convey humanist values in whatever subject they teach regardless of education level - preschool, day care or large State university. The classroom must and will become an arena of conflict between the old and the new, the rotting corpse of Christianity, together with its adjacent evil and misery, and the new faith of Humanism.”
The Humanist, Jan-Feb 1983.
The Humanist movement has spawned a raft of global Socialist-Humanist front organisation to this end (See THE SIECUS CIRCLE, by Claire Chamber: Western Islands Publications.) Among which are the Skeptics and NCSE. The objective of NCSE is to ensure that the theory of evolution and godless naturalism has sole and exclusive status in science and education to the exclusion of all else, particularly intelligent design and special creation by God. This is precisely why Thomas Huxley fought to have Darwin entombed in Westminster Abby. As acknowledged by leading atheist Daniel Dennett, Evolution is like an acid that eats all else away, particularly theism and the creationist Biblical worldview. Dennett is one of the four atheistic “Horseman of the Apocalypse”. The others being Richard Dawkins, Sam Harris, and the late Christopher Hitchens. Sadly, Christians have largely taken the deadly bait of godless naturalism and Darwinism: Thus, aided and abetted the destruction of both theism and the Christian worldview. All I can say is thank God for those creationist scientists who stand firm on the truth and integrity of Biblical Revelation.
Regarding the separation of Church and State, Christians have once again been naively deceived: Here’s why…
While the American Constitution mitigates against any particular Church having State dominion it says nothing about the State not having a religious character. Indeed, the notion of State “'Freedom from Religion” is a deceptive Secular Humanist lie that as no basis in reality. Because Secularism is just another name for “atheism”. And U.S Supreme Court has ruled that "atheism " is a religion in the full sense of the word. As previously shown, the word “secular” was first used by hard-core Socialist and atheist George Jacob Holyoake (1817 - 1906) as a substitute word for atheism because atheism was regarded as a “negative” word.
Thus, it is not a matter of whether or not the State functions on a specific religion, but rather "which specific religion is the religion of the State It can be no other way! Because every worldview is founded on “metaphysical” religious beliefs above and beyond the limits of science and physics. This is true of Communism, Socialism and Secular Humanism, atheism any every other worldview on planet earth. Atheism and all related “religions” are founded on the unproven “blind faith” metaphysical religious beliefs of “philosophical” naturalism and godless materialism: In the “blind faith” belief that ALL REALITY is solely the result of natural processes and godless causes alone:In the “unverifiable” belief that science is the only real source of knowledge and truth. Which is the definition of “scientism”, not science.
Meaning, the notion of “In Reason we Trust” has no rational or scientific basis.As it operates on the absurd “irrational” and “unscientific” premise that an “effect” can not only be far greater than the “cause”, but “opposite” to the cause: The Evolutionary paradigm asserts that life came from non-life; consciousness came from non-consciousness; mind from non-mind; reason from non-reason; personal from the impersonal; conscience from non-conscience; the moral from the amoral.
Yes, Sorry I forgot to mention Stalin and Hitler, And appreciate being informed that it was 58 million unborn children ripped apart rather than 40 million.
I think many Christians in the US and Europe have taken such a lukewarm attitude to secular/humanist/anti-theist agendas, that they turn a blind eye to a fanaticism displayed by some of these groups. I notices a prominent academic, who in his rant against anyone who questioned neo-Darwinian evolution, used phrases such as “in dog we trust”, an obvious reference to the US phrase, "in God we trust’. There are numerous examples of such behaviour that seems to be regarded as normal and does not receive condemnation from any quarter. This is truly disgusting, for the simple reason these people believe neo-Darwinian outlooks justify any and all bad behaviour.
If Evangelicals didn’t insist that the religious idea of God-led formation of [some] animal kinds with the less necessary idea of “Young Earth Creation” . . … there wouldn’t be such a desire to throw out both the baby and the water.
George Brooks
I’m glad you require a long rest between rants.
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This comment does not make sense - civilised people should object to any extreme and offensive statements, and not encourage them by making excuses for them. This takes freedom of expression into the extremes favoured by fanatics. It seems fashionable to condemn those who do not tolerate religious extremes (correctly so), but overlook similar behaviour by anti-theists and secularists. This is wrong.
How are NCSE and the Humanist movement related?
They are related because johnheininger doesn’t like them. You know, you tar everyone you don’t like with a broad brush. It’s simple and requires no thought.
Yes, that would explain it. I was getting worried that NCSE plans to distribute the Grandmother Fish book to preschoolers all over America including Catholic, Protestant, Jewish, Muslim, and secular pre-schoolers was some sort of Communist/Socialist/Humanist/Nazist/Atheist plot to indoctrinate preschoolers in the evils of evolution through natural selection.