I was a Young Earth Creationist Christian for my first 47 years, so my conclusion that the Christian God isn’t the true God is because of a lifetime of fundamentalist either/or ultimatums, and I eventually found out for sure that they were on the wrong side of reality. When I decided to settle once and for all whether some version of Old Earth Creations, or YEC was true I decided not to research creationism vs evolution, but whether YEC “flood geology” or old Earth geology had the truth about how the geologic column, oil, gas, coal, fossils, etc. got formed. In the end I realized that Noah’s flood never happened at all that started the dominoes falling, ending when I realized Jesus taught that the flood was real, so Jesus was wrong too. The flood not being real took out the God believed by most Christians, Jews and Muslims except for the “liberal” versions, and I don’t even know how to think like that. As far as other Gods, the God of the Biblewas the one true God. If He isn’t real, I don’t think I have to check out every other religion in the world. What’s the chance the Hindu Gods are real? It was the Abrahamic God threatening to send people to hell for not believing in him.
Religions are built around faith in unknowable answers to many divine questions. A more introductory question would be ‘Did A God create us or did we create God’? The factual evidence you cite of so many theistic Religions would favor the answer that we created God in some ‘image’ favorable to the desires of its believers. The aspect of your question involving ‘truth’ is also being rapidly eroded by social media and the gullibility even many Christians appear to have for nonsense. I would think that faith in the ‘True God’ would provide insight about truth over obvious lies but maybe that is part of God’s disguise. The best advice is just to ‘Keep the Faith’! I happen to think that Christianity has the best music and holidays so I’m good with it.
The Creator is the only Absolute in a cosmos of relativity. If there is no Creator, all is random and there is no design, no purpose, thus all is meaningless. I reference The Creator as “He” because Jesus referenced God as His Father. It is my position The Creator is gender neutral Spirit.
On this planet, there are numerous gods that are worshipped, but the cosmos has only one Creator. I want a clear understanding that there is only one Absolute to be worshipped, an omnipotent Creator. The worship of The Creator is totally different between the various religious practices as they worship their God(s). A person’s god can be materialistic or religious, what the person worships is their god. There are numerous definitions of a god, examples: 1) an image, an idol, 2) a symbolic representation of such a deity, 3) any person, practice or thing to which excessive attention and worship is given, 4) a person who has qualities personally regarded as making themselves superior to others, or 5) an Absolute omnipotent Creator.
How a person worships The Creator through their viewpoint and practice defines their religion and their God. How a person worships The Creator through the Old Testament and specifically the New Testament Bible who’s Words are from God, defines a Christian. The personal relationship Christians have with The Creator and His intercessor Son, Jesus the Christ, The Creators chosen Messiah, who is the proclaimer of His good news of salvation through His grace defines the Christians’ God; thus defines the Christian. How a person worships The Creator through the Quran (the Hadith/Sira writings) defines a Muslim. How a person worships The Creator through the Hebrew Scriptures (Talmud /Midrash/Torah, etc.) defines a Jew. The Christian New Testament Bible, the Jewish Scriptures and the Muslim Quran do not teach the same messages or practices. Between the NT Bible and the Quran, in many areas they are totally divergent; and the Jews do not have the NT. The worship of The Creator is significantly different between the religions practiced by the Jews and the Muslims; and the personal relationship Christians have with The Christ, their Intercessor. There is only one Creator; therefore, the God of the Christians is not the God worshiped by the Jews, the Allah of Islam or any other god.
I’ll never understand the emphasis on God being the creator - of everything no less! Suppose God was only the creator of the hominids or even just the only direct connection you will ever have with the divine. Would that be too little to bother about?
Before you get the wrong idea, I’m not a Christian and speak for no one here but myself most of the time. Still, I do think there is something real and important that gives rise to God/gods belief - I just don’t think it is anything like what most imagine as God.
So you can dismiss the entirety of Jesus on the mere basis of him referencing the flood account? The point he is making by this analogy is that people will be taken unaware and it will be too late once they realize what happens. Jesus may have believed the flood really occurred or not. I’d guess the former but by NO MEANS WHATSOEVER is he trying to teach the flood story was real. That is complete eisegesis and a product of the conservative brain washing you were subjected to like many of us! That is a completely modern question and not at all what the saying is about. It is about being ready and vigilant.
The concordist approach to scripture is incorrect. God chose to accommodate his message and communicate it through limited humans. Jesus appealing to what is a conventional story at the time, background knowledge to Jews, is hardy outside the scope of this process. The flood story would conjure up a powerful image of God’s justice being visited upon sinners and serve as a warning to be prepared. Jesus has no interest in moderns questions about the historicity of the Flood narratives, whether he accepted them or not.
You are correct the flood did not happen. I’m am sure plenty of floods did happen but Genesis is mythology that borrows elements from Atrahasis extensively.
Vinnie
@Tim_Matter. I ‘Liked’ what you said because it was real, from the heart, rational. But as @Vinnie implies, as far as it goes. Jesus’ divinity isn’t impaired by His humanity.
So the faithless can’t have that insight, but all true believers do? Is God being in disguise part of that?
No, all is meaninglessly necessary, including the randomness that follows.
The necessitator of being is of all being; no less than everything. God would be an intentional necessitator. If existence isn’t intentionally necessitated in whole then it isn’t in part. No natural entity can possibly organize nature more than we can. Therefore our superstitions are real and important spandrels, by-products of our incarnate intentionality.
Yes, 100%. @Tim_Matter I’ve been in your exact shoes but I didn’t have knowledge or access to Biologos or this forum that has a significant number of Christians who will be happy to share with you a wealth of information on divine accommodation. I doubt either existed when this was my issue. There was no alternative to fundamentalist and American-evangelical Christianity I was aware of at the time. You experienced what a lot of people have. The whole Christian castle comes tumbling down when it is built intellectually on a foundation of sand. For some of us, the bad harmonizations and pat apologetics answers are eventually and properly rejected as dubious cases of confirmation bias.
Vinnie
With regard to how Christianity should be playing in the sandbox with everybody else, I really like Rev. Barbara Brown Taylor’s approach (such as I’ve seen so far - from this video). It’s my first acquaintance with her, and I haven’t yet read any of her books, so I don’t know much else about her except having watched the linked video, and I liked what I heard. She’s an Episcopalian priest from Georgia.
Wow! I like her. I wonder if Jim might like doing a podcast with her. She goes on my list of favorite Christians along with Bill Moyers, Mr Rogers, all the mods and staff here I know and many of the regulars as well. You guys have definitely given me some welcome cracks as well as a much deeper respect for your faith and what it can add to your lives.
I hope hearing this might help some Christians who feel so compelled to convert everyone not yet in the tent to live kinder, more joyful lives and to make better ambassadors of their faith and neighbors.
From Georgia you say? Does she travel around and do seminars or does she just do local?
Good question! I’m guessing the session I linked to above must have been her somewhere in Minneapolis just based on some of her asides as she spoke. And she speaks, as if in present tense about her own situation in Georgia. But I haven’t really researched her yet, and there are books to read as you can see promoted on her own website (another thing I’ll look into later when I have more time.)
Thanks for your kind words, Mark!
That would be really cool! @jstump ?
Among the many things she said that I admire: if you really want to know about another religion, ask some actual adherents and not their enemies.
She said so many good things including to not just compare the best in ones own tribe to the worst in the other. She had me laughing hard. Her wit and delivery reminds so much of Ann Richard’s.
“Holy envy” should not seem like an oxymoron to us – God has it.
I don’t think they would be too keen on ordained women, but they can always prove me wrong.
But it isnt chaos.
So that is proof of God?
I’ve never picked up on that here. I know some carry inflated expectations for the male role in a relationship but I hadn’t thought anyone would feel women just shouldn’t hold any leadership role in a church.
Believe me, it’s real.
Roman Catholics don’t ordain women. Neither do the reformed. I should ask around. Does anybody here (besides me) have ordained women on staff at your churches? Are you all led by white male clergy?
I get to checkmark your box there. Our church has had several women as pastors - and did so back before it became cool. They were good ones too (and our current one is excellent). Of course Mennonites are a mixed bag in this regard. There are many in our denomination across the world who would not.