Is the bible inerrant?

Faith & Science Conversation
568

Dear Bill,
thank you for your reply.

I really do not know why anyone would doubt that Hitler was obsessed with evolution and acted consistently with that belief throughout his time in power and control of Nazi Germany.
The quantity of literature on the subject is immense.
Well for starters, “In Germany, the leaders of the eugenics movement, using evolution as their justification, caused sterilisation laws and immigration restriction laws to be enacted during the 1930s.” see full article at:
https://creation.com/adolf-hitler-and-eugenics"

Bill, you may not be aware that the founder of ‘eugenics’ was Francis Galton, who was cousin of Charles Darwin. Evolution is the backbone of Galton’s warped religiously fanatical idea of making mankind genetically better through forced sterilisation and mass murder of the weak, the infirm, the disabled.

You also may not be aware that the Bible was rewritten in Germany during WWII to remove any references to Judaism and changing the Scriptures to say that Jesus was an Aryan

You may also not be aware of the results of Hitler’s evolutionary based 'Aryan’ ‘superior Germanic race’ breeding program, that is at:

And you don’t appear to be aware that the Nazi holocaust was driven by their belief and faith in evolution, that has more detail at:

And Children from the Hitler Youth had to recite a daily prayer to the Führer

Figure 1. Children from the Hitler Youth had to recite a daily prayer to the Führer.

Darwinism underpinned the most basic features of Nazi theory and practice. While Darwinism is not the sole explanation for National Socialism, it is nonetheless an essential one. The Nazis strongly believed they were acting on behalf of evolutionary ‘science’, reason and progress.
They saw themselves as progressive people, who in their impatience merely wished to hasten evolution’s laggard pace by giving a helping hand to its guiding principle, ‘survival of the fittest’.
This article is at:

People have had a basically evil nature since the fall of Adam in the garden, thus there has been evil actions by people since the beginning, but that fact in no way diminishes the atrocities that were committed consistent with evolutionary beliefs and because of evolutionary beliefs. I’m sorry but if you believe that is not the case you are only deceiving yourself, as ample well documented history exists that clearly demonstrates the direct causative link between Nazi evolutionary beliefs and the holocaust.

God bless,
jon

569

Sorry but quoting anti-evolution sources doesn’t make the false myth true. And “social darwinism” is not based on evolution but just uses it as a justification.

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It is interesting to compare it to the other big social movement around Darwin’s era, where major segments of Christian denominations defended slavery based on Biblical principles. Now, we accept that they were using the Bible to justify their base desires, much as evolution was used for that purpose by those in power. And the continued use of it to justify racism and segregation even to the present, but in Bible colleges in some cases into the late 1900’s.

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Dear Bill,
thank you for your reply.

It is abundantly evident however, that when those sources are very well referenced with verifiable references from a broad range of secular, Christian and academic mainstream and peer reviewed sources from recognised experts in the field, it is beyond doubt that evolution was most definitely used as a justification for mass murder and genocide.

There simply is no escaping that historical fact, it is readily verified in any library with a history section that has even a small section on WWII.

Sorry but denying that fact, doesn’t change it.

Whether ‘social Darwinism’ is based on evolutionary beliefs, or merely uses it as a justification for horrendous crimes against humanity, the bald fact is still that evolutionary belief is almost entirely an atheist belief system that has no moral backbone, ‘kill or be killed’, ‘red in tooth and claw’, ‘survival of the fittest’ are familiar phrases that echo the deeper belief, that has no pity for the weak, the frail, or those considered by some as inferior, thus even social Darwinism with all its accompanying evils, only exists because evolution has been accepted as a reality by many.

God bless,
jon

572

Dear Phil,

However, if evolution was not widely accepted as a virtual fact by the mainstream, then it would be impossible to use it as a conduit for their evil agendas, be it mass murder, eugenics, racial segregation or racism.

Calling out evolution for the deceitful false teaching that it is, is the only sure fire way to stop such evil from being repeated using evolution as an excuse.

If evolution was fully exposed as a falsified belief, no doubt that evil people in powerful positions would likely then dream up some other excuse to make their actions appear more palatable.

But the fact remains evolution is a belief system tailor made for evil people to attempt to excuse their evil atrocities as a supposed future benefit for mankind.

God bless,
jon

573

Greetings!
I appreciate your interaction, and your care.

I find that I run into the mistake of respecting labels like “doctor” and “professor” too much. You likely also find that it is helpful to label someone by their degrees and work, rather than a moniker like “Dr” or “Prof”–there are so many of us that assume we know what we’re doing, with that name, but don’t. For example, I’m a family doc, but would not rely on my degree to comment on evolution. An ortho doc like c) probably knows about the same; same for pediatrics. MRI is unlikely related.

Of the three above, I see that the ortho critiqued whether a back has evidence of evolution or not. I’m not confident from any of the assessment that he has any evolutionary or comparative biology history, and his address does not appear to be a scholarly one.

‘The vertebral bodies increase in cross-sectional area as you go further down the spine, because in the upright position, the lower ones take more load. The bones are not denser, just bigger. By contrast, animals that walk on all fours have a roughly horizontal spine that is equally loaded all the way. So all their vertebrae are of similar cross-sectional area. Form matches function. If evolutionists were right in saying we had recently attained upright posture, our vertebral bodies should be like those of quadrupeds, but they are not.

This is a simplistic observation which misses a lot of likely mutations that would be expected with development.

So, labeling someone as John Smith, PhD/MS evolutionary biology, etc, would be more helpful; though biology degrees are often nonspecific, too.
Thanks.

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574

And you just proved my point. The root problem is lack of morals. Accepting the theory of evolution certainly doesn’t lead to a lack of morals as the vast numbers of Christians who accept it proves. And given the vast amount of evil caused by Christians before the theory of evolution exists also proves that you can’t blame evolution. Just because someone misuses the theory of evolution doesn’t allow you to just dismiss the theory. People misuse theories all the time.

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Matt 7:11 - If you then, who are evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father who is in heaven give good things to those who ask him!

Jer 17:9 The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately sick; who can understand it?

who can understand it? - sometimes I do see it.

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577

Thank you for sharing your knowledge about the canon process. I do have a question, perhaps already asked a dozen times - who was responsible for the final decision to add the book of Revelation to the canon?

I heard the names of Athanasius and Eusebius.

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578

Eusebius did not consider it canonical. It caught on earlier in the west (where I think the 7 churches it addresses actually are) but was rejected in the east by many. This is an informative link:

Revelation

To me this shows how silly it is to say the canon was set in the second century. The book has been rejected by many Christians of repute across the last two millennia. I am not a fan of its violence and I don’t think that aspect of it speaks for Jesus either way.

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579

Hi Bill,
yes, I absolutely agree with you, lack of morals is the root cause, people acting against what their God given conscience is telling them.

However, it is still an undeniable fact that throughout history, there have been powerful evil people who used their wholehearted belief in evolution as an excuse to murder, sterilse and oppress millions upon millions of vulnerable people , claiming their actions are in the long run for the greater good of humanity directly because of, and consistent with their atheist belief in evolution.

Yes, I agree they were severely lacking in moral fibre, and acting contrary to the Ten Commandments, but that doesn’t somehow mean that their evolutionary beliefs didn’t play an important pivotal role.

it is abundantly clear they did!

Even secular atheist believers in evolution do not dispute the historical reality of mass murder of millions of innocent people that was justified by evolutionary belief.

Yes, clearly there are Christians who believe in TE, who I expect are guided by their consciences and God, and thus would never dream of committing mass murder justified by their evolutionary beliefs,

but,

it is a fallacy indeed to believe that just because Theistic Evolutionists can be Christian, that evolution belief has not been used to justify appalling acts of cruelty towards our fellow human beings, as it clearly has, and those evil acts are absolutely consistent with the evolutionary belief of the evil mass murderers.

But that is also a fallacy, yes, I agree there have been countless individuals throughout history, that have claimed to be Christians who have committed evil atrocities.

The fallacy arises because it does not logically follow that because some
people who are, or who claim to be Christian (whilst acting like the devil), prior to evolution, means that evolution is vindicated as a blameless belief. It simply does not follow. That is plainly nonsense!

It is an easily verified undisputed historic fact the systematic murder of six million Jews in German-occupied Europe was justified according to a religious belief in evolution by the perpetrators.

But the theory of evolution wasn’t misused at all, doesn’t evolution teach the concept of improvement of a specie through directed or random natural selection to weed out the weak, the sick, the infirm to prevent them from reproducing; that in time will become fixed when inherited throughout the population and make the specie stronger, healthier and better.

That is precisely what Hitler was vainly attempting to do through his personal religious fervor for eugenics and evolutionary belief in general!
I say vainly because evolution is not real, it is a simple man-made concept!

God bless,
jon

580

Dear Randy,
yes, point taken, you are of course correct. I was merely hoping to convey that there are many well credentialed scientists that do not accept evolution, and do accept Biblical creation.

a) Dr Raymond Vahan Damadian bachelor’s degree in mathematics from the University of Wisconsin–Madison in 1956, and an M.D. degree from the Albert Einstein College of Medicine in New York City in 1960. (March 16, 1936 – August 3, 2022)

b) Professor John Rendle-Short A.M., M.A., M.B., B.Chir., M.D. (Cantab.), F.R.C.P., F.R.A.C.P. (19 June 1919–21 January 2010)

c) Professor Richard William Porter(1935 - 2005)

Id: Royal College of Surgeons: E000244

Full Name: Porter, Richard William

Date of Birth: 16 February 1935

Place of Birth: Doncaster, UK

Date of Death: 20 July 2005

Occupation: Orthopaedic surgeon

Titles/Qualifications:
MRCS and FRCS 1966; MB ChB Edin 1958; MD 1981; DSc 2001; DObst RCOG 1961; FRCS Edin 1961 LRCP 1966.

God bless,
jon

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581

I believe the bible speaks of two deaths,

Hebrews 9:27

And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:

This judgment is the second death for some. See Revelation

But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death .

Is it possible the “Surely die” God warns of Adam is the second death of those who disobey God with Satan and the fallen angels.

1 cor 15:45-
45 Thus it is written, “The first man Adam became a living being”;[e] the last Adam became a life-giving spirit. 46 But it is not the spiritual that is first but the natural, and then the spiritual. 47 The first man was from the earth, a man of dust; the second man is from heaven. 48 As was the man of dust, so also are those who are of the dust, and as is the man of heaven, so also are those who are of heaven.

This verse could make a very strong argument for natural life first then spiritual life through Christ

Leviticus 18:9

You shall not uncover the nakedness of your sister, your father’s daughter or your mother’s daughter, whether brought up in the family or in another home.
Deuteronomy 27:22

“‘Cursed be anyone who lies with his sister, whether the daughter of his father or the daughter of his mother.’ And all the people shall say, ‘Amen.’

How do you reconcile this Law with a holy unchanging God? not easy for YEC.

582

Dear Troy,
I do not know on both counts, that is regarding the first and second death
and I do not know for certain regarding the passages you quoted in Leviticus and Deuteronomy.

Regarding Adam and Eve, for the past thirty to forty years I have believed that the genetic perfection that would have been present in Adam being made by the Creator as the Federal Head of Mankind, would have permitted the marriage of brother and sister to procreate without severe disability resulting in their offspring.

After a certain period of time, when harmful genetic mutations had accumulated to a point known only to God, the safe period of procreation of healthy children by very close family members would have ended, and thus God introduced the law clearly laid out in Leviticus and Deuteronomy.

But I am willing to admit I may be wrong, but in similar fashion my belief may be correct and in its support, it does not contradict the creation account in Genesis where God created and saw that it was good, if death already existed, then that belief by TEC’s makes a mockery of God which is not an option under any circumstances.

How do you reconcile, “God saw that it was good”, and “God saw that it was very good”, and sin entering the creation from Adam’s rebellion and death through sin being present, if there was already death prior to Adam as TEC’s believe?

God bless,
jon

583

Dear Terry,

perhaps you would find the following interesting also:

And,

https://web.colby.edu/st112a-fall20/2020/10/25/basis-of-social-darwinism-and-the-herero-genocide/

A short excerpt from this article is below:
“This genocide took place between Nazi Germany and the indigenous peoples throughout the colony of German South-West Africa. After almost 20 years of strict oppression from the Germans, the Herero people decided to finally rise against local German leadership. Witnessing the rise in opposition the German General Lothar von Trotha was assigned to take over command of the colony in an effort to minimize the opposition from the indigenous peoples. Von Trotha’s assignment to this position led to some of the most oppressive actions in history, as the genocide is remembered today by its brutality and its similarities to the holocaust. Von Trotha stated that he was assigned to, “annihilate the revolting tribes with streams of blood”, which is exactly what happened as between 20,000-100,000 Herero’s were killed in the short span of 4 years. This conflict was a result of Nazi Germany and Social Darwinism, the two of which combined to form one of the most evil enemies the world has ever seen.”

God bless,
jon

584

Thank you Jon for your honest answers.
We are all looking through a glass dimly. My hope is Christian brotherly unity and love to show the world our faith is bigger than the disputed age of the earth or how deep the waters were.

Our God is mysterious and his ways are not our ways. I think in ten thousand years we will be pondering a new mystery about Him! Maybe even having lively debate and conjecture !

To answer your question I would share this biblical insight I have been wrestling with.
In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. 2 The earth was without form, and void; and darkness [a]

here is the complete strong’s definition of the hebrew
ֹ תּ הוֹּ בּ˂ֶ שֹׁ ח
tôhû bôhu chôshek
A Chaotic Void of Darkness
Defined as:
From an unused root
meaning to lie waste; a desolation (of surface), that is, desert; figuratively a worthless thing;
adverbially in vain: - confusion, empty place, without form, nothing, (thing of) nought, vain,
vanity, waste, wilderness. From an unused root (meaning to be empty); a vacuity, that is,
(superficially)
an undistinguishable
ruin: - emptiness,
Void. the dark;
hence (literally)
darkness;
figuratively
misery,
Destruction,
Death,
ignorance,
sorrow,
wickedness:
darkness,
Night,
Obscurity.

So in the beginning was Not good at all it was the worst possible!. God does not call the first creation good. I cannot but see this description as the death of Christ and the calling of the light as resurrection. Rev 13:8 the Lamb who was slain from the creation of the world.
So things progress from Bad to Good, To Very good… a progression from death towards eternal life! Adam was “very good” in that he could have eternal life in Christ and true fellowship with God.
I wrote a poem and animated it on youtube that ties creation and Christ together, Enjoy!! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ccDp1A98UCo

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  • When you figure out how to trace all murders, violence, and genocides in history, beginning with the murder of Abel by Cain, to the theory of evolution, start a thread and maybe I’ll take a look at how you personally connect events that occurred before anyone came up with the theory of evolution to that theory. Till then, you have nothing to offer that I’m interested in.
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586

Dear Troy,
thank you for you brotherly words and being candid about your desire for unity and what really matters for each of us.

I too long for the Bride of Christ our Lord, the Church, to be united and be a blessing and powerful witness to the many lost of this world.

The harvest is plentiful but the workers are few!

Your Garden Tomb poem is powerful and well done and thought provoking.

Yes, Faith , Hope and Love remain and the greatest of these is Love.

I understand the creation account in Genesis as literal historical narrative, thus I believe the words of the Scriptures:
1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. 2 And the earth was a formless and desolate emptiness, and darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the surface of the waters. 3 Then God said, “Let there be light”; and there was light. 4 God saw that the light was good; and God separated the light from the darkness. 5 God called the light “day,” and the darkness He called “night.” And there was evening and there was morning, one day.

6 Then God said, “Let there be an expanse in the midst of the waters, and let it separate the waters from the waters.” 7 God made the expanse, and separated the waters that were below the expanse from the waters that were above the expanse; and it was so. 8 God called the expanse “heaven.” And there was evening and there was morning, a second day.

9 Then God said, “Let the waters below the heavens be gathered into one place, and let the dry land appear”; and it was so. 10 And God called the dry land “earth,” and the gathering of the waters He called “seas”; and God saw that it was good. 11 Then God said, “Let the earth sprout vegetation, plants yielding seed, and fruit trees on the earth bearing fruit according to their kind with seed in them”; and it was so. 12 The earth produced vegetation, plants yielding seed according to their kind, and trees bearing fruit with seed in them, according to their kind; and God saw that it was good. 13 And there was evening and there was morning, a third day.…" and as you well know the rest of Chapter 1 follows in the same vein…

Thus I truly have considerable difficulty reconciling what has been written (at great pains to be clear), that it was indeed consecutive days as anyone on Earth at anytime would know, day, night, day, night, day, night, day, night, day, night, day, night, day, etc…

The very fact that the words, “And there was evening and there was morning, a (numeral) day” are expressly used makes it clear to me that the meaning is a day, not billions of years, if it was billions of years, then that would have been made clear.

I don’t see any reason to read into the text through a convoluted pantheon of mental gymnastics in translation and Biblical exegesis to eventually arrive at billions of years of death and struggle through imagined evolutionary processes.

God bless,
jon

Lord, please help us all understand your Love and know You in Truth and Sincerity. Amen

587

Thank you for your post and the informative link.

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