I didn’t know that! Is the first announcement on the moratorium? Or did I miss an earlier one?
(I think I can find out from Wiki…)
Nope, I just made it up. And you know it’s for real because I even highlighted it.
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Well… that just tears it … I had a lot of points to re-visit … maybe 50 pages, double-spaced, separated into sections by theme, and now it’s all just useless pre-confetti. Sigh. And a pout.
Now I feel like the woman singing “Torn”… Natalie Imbruglia … a song so deeply moving, there have been over 102 million views since it was loaded in 2009! That’s about 12 million views per year !!! Holy Smokes… But don’t watch Her video … not now. You gotta see the video at the bottom of this posting!
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Rreally, I feel like this man - - who is doing an “interpretation” of the song Torn - - is my personal hero, and my nomination for “Man Most Beloved While Exposing Himself to Ridicule”… hands down … I love this guy!
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This man has it all … timing… grace … emotion… projection … presentation… oh, and I have it on very good authority that he’s quite upset about the quarantine on discussing slavery here on this list.
(Yeah, I know… you were wondering where I was going with all this … think of some of my posts as a lot like Entropy … ending badly… and in a hushed baby soft whisper . . . )
[By the by, I just realized that some of his gestures might be a little ribald… so I have moved this to a LINK, rather than on the page itself…Yes. You are welcome.]
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Stand up routine on the song ‘Torn’
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Admittedly, I was thinking to myself “George, you are laying on the drama a bit thick, aren’t you?” But after having watched the bottom video, and wiping the tears of laughter from my eyes, I completely agree with every word of praise! George, thanks for sharing, I was in desperate need of the comedy relief!
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When it comes to “the nasty bits” in the OT where certain parts may seem morally dubious in the light of history and later moral and ethical discussion it alweays seems to me to accept the view that the OT developed in the context of the somewhat uncertain beilefs at the tine writing and that all the OT is in someway imperfect, made more perfect in the light of Christ. We can never put the OT on the same level as the NT. The OT is not the whole story and even in the life and times of the apostles means that they were still affected by their surrounding culture (including accepting slaves as part of the structure of society). Revelation then did not stop with the NT eiither but God’s Word continues to impress upon our minds new motivations that re better than what has gone before.
Athesits will dream up all sorts of lame explanations in the quest to inject meaning into their lives.
To you and to me their explanations seem “lame”, and yet, in some strange way, I am forced to admire the manner in which atheists like Carl Sagan and Stephen Hawking can face up to severe handicap and to death without seeing a higher purpose to it all. “What’s it all about, Alfie?”
Al Leo
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[quote=“John_Dalton, post:13, topic:35781, full:true”]
I would say God’s morality is not objective, since it is his morality. But since God is the measure of all things, then to us humans his morality is effectively an objective standard.
Can God change his morality? The Bible says he doesn’t change. So if you think God might change his mind about the sinfulness of homosexual acts, for example, don’t hold your breath.
If their athesim makes them happy, then good luck to them. Anyone who can struggle on with the sort of handicaps Hawking has, deserves admiration.
I agree that (as I would say) God is absolute. As to whether God changes, we aren’t in a position to judge that if God is the measure of all things as you and I agree, and we should trust Scriptures that teach he is the same God now and forever. Humanity moves, however, and God reaches out to us where we are. So on that score, would you say God changed his mind about whether or not it is good and right to seek vengeance on those who wrong us? Or did God change his mind on whether or not a person should be put to death for breaking Sabbath commandments? Or is it rather we who have changed and progressed, under God’s guidance through Christ closer to where God truly is? I embrace the latter view and think that this is what we learn from experience and from the revelations of Scripture.
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Exactly!
And the same goes for keeping the Sabbath, right?
Exodus 31:15-16
“Six days may work be done; but in the seventh is the sabbath of rest, holy to the LORD: whosoever doeth any work in the sabbath day, he shall surely be put to death.
Wherefore the children of Israel shall keep the sabbath, to observe the tsabbath hroughout their generations, for a perpetual covenant.”
It looks like we are stuck with Saturday as well!
So, @Dredge, what do you do on your Saturdays?
Atheists find meaning in life in the same places you do. We find meaning in loving our family, our spouses, our children. We find meaning in learning new things, helping others, and leaving the world a better place than what we found it. If the only thing that gives meaning to your life is a possible afterlife, then you should be pitied.
I think you are confusing morality with obedience. Just because you are obedient to what a deity commands does not mean that you are moral. Those are two different things.
If you can’t judge morals for yourself, then you can’t say that God’s commands are moral. If you can judge morality for yourself, then you don’t need a deity laying out what is and isn’t moral.
I just thought I would mention that I think the name of this thread is pretty provocative - - in a bad way.
I don’t know any BioLogos writings that propose Human morality is the result of Evolution. But I know plenty of writings that attribute a Universal Morality from God.
Evolution is beside the point when it comes to Evolution - - unless, of course, you are an Atheist.
It is beside the point for a discussion of morality with Atheists as well. The first thing you run into is the Naturalistic fallacy, which is closely tied to the Is/Ought problem. Natural is not a synonym for moral.
The human capacity for empathy, reason, and logic is a fact, and it really doesn’t matter where those things originated from. This is what Atheists will point to. What Atheists find alarming is the willingness of Theists to ignore their own sense of morality in deference to religious dogma. This is how you get people flying into buildings in the name of their religion.
This is further driven home when a believer of one religion judges the commands given by a deity in another religion. They use their own sense of morality to judge the commands given by God in another religion, thereby demonstrating the existence of their own sense of morality and how morality sits above both God and us.
Of course, this whole question of morality and religion was tackled quite well by Socrates in his conversations with Euthyphro. It is worth a read if this topic interests you.
Morality is a supernatural issue. I may be a Unitarian, but I can’t go along with the idea that the Universal “ought” is genetically driven.
It may have certain convergences… but morality comes from God… and mysteriously so.
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The Universal “Ought” is driven by reason and logic. The only way in which genetics enters into it is in evolving a brain capable of reason and logic. We don’t say that water is made of two hydrogens and one oxygen because our genetics causes us to. We say that because it is an empirical fact of reality, and we have the brains to figure it out.
Also, if we can’t question morality as humans, then someone who claims God commanded them to commit genocide is a moral person. That doesn’t make much sense. You are heading into the territory of people being killed, their rights taken away, abused, tortured, all in the name of someone’s God. If there is one advance that society has taken in the last 200 years is the moment someone said “God says so” is not a valid reason for something to be moral.
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Ooops. Was that a typo? In the Christian world view, the Universal “Ought” is driven by God.
Mr. T, why are you debating an atheist view of morality on a Christian discussion page? I love ya … but it’s a lot like walking into a Synagogue, where Reform and Orthodox folks are discussing a rabbinical point … and saying that they have it all wrong, if they don’t include Jesus.
Yes… it’s dramatic. But it is a fruitless exercise.
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I was under the impression that this was a forum that was welcome to all. I also thought it appropriate to clear up misunderstandings where they applied to Atheism.[quote=“gbrooks9, post:40, topic:35781”]
I love ya … but it’s a lot like walking into a Synagogue, where Reform and Orthodox folks are discussing a rabbinical point … and saying that they have it all wrong, if they don’t include Jesus.
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This is an open forum on the internet, not a synagogue, mosque, church, or temple.
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