Slightly off topic, but you known the Bible well (any many things that fascinate me). I am curious if you know any verses that say this? Or is this just some commonly repeated words that have no Biblical foundation?
Thanks for that nugget of food for thought.
Not sure where you see that? I will give you the historical part, but I don’t see miraculous anywhere.
vs 26-27Just like in the days of Noah (history)…People will be eating and drinking (carrying on normal lives). Then the flood came (completely unexpected, like a thief in the night).
vs 28-29 Eating and drinking, than man, unexpected destruction/punishment
You can read that through the eyes of one who believes the flood was historical an local, and none of that meaning changes. I don’t know where Sodom was, could it have been a hail storm with lightening? Could it have been a volcano?
vs 40 No men will be in the field (probably a parable of some sort, probably non-historical, it doens’t say “in the days of”) carrying on with normal life, then, boom, sudden unexpected judgment.
vs 50 The master of that servant will come on a day when he does not expect him and at an hour he is not aware of.
I think vs 50 sums up all of the previous narratives (some parable, some historical) that the point of these references, were to demonstrate unexpectedness of the judgement to come.
You can again read all of this through eyes of one who does not believe in a global flood or a “miraculous scale” required for all of these quotes of Jesus not to be true.
There is no “official” definition of miracles (there is a thread here on that though), just like there is no official interpretation of the Bible. Though I would think creating hundreds of fish out of 2, is creating matter, which is against those laws?
Walking on water isn’t just “beyond human operational capabilities”, it is against physics.
I agree to a certain extent, that humility and love is more important than pride of being right. BUT, This shouldn’t burn any bridge, nor require a bridge, and Jesus can walk on water and doens’t need a bridge. Meaning, YEC’s and EC’s don’t need to bridge together of knowledge, the only bridge they need to is to show the love of God to others as brothers and sisters in Christ. With Jesus as the focal point, there is no water than can’t be traversed, and no bridge needed.
I don’t really have any problem with YEC’s, though I have a little disdain for Ken Ham and the likes that spend (or more accurately stated) waste a ridiculous amount of money to prove them as right. This money could go to those proclaiming God and spreading the love of Jesus! All YEC doctrine does is preach to the choir, those who know the Bible and believe in literally (so hopefully know and trust in Jesus). There is not 1 atheist that would see the Ark and convert, it would do the opposite, and turn people away from God.
1 Tim 1:4 " or to devote themselves to myths and endless genealogies. Such things promote controversial speculations rather than advancing God’s work—which is by faith"
By writing this, this could help someone who doesn’t know God, or has trouble accepting God because of science. YEC’s (in most) know God. So if you write an article that reaches the lost or the searching, yet alienates YEC’s on an intellectual level, may God be praised!
Now I am by no means saying, we are to twist God’s word to reach others. May it never be! Rather if you can come up with a very logical argument that uses our observations and other scriptures to come up with a stance, AND it happens to help reconcile a non-believer to God, praise God.
I still don’t see that. I see it as clearly trying to convey these events as an event that happened unexpectedly.
ANE had no concept of stars as physical objects, it was lights to them. If the starts fell, they thought they would hit earth, probably like a rain drop, which wouldn’t be very scary, the physical act of that. The scary part would be the gods who help us the stars or the firmament holding them broke, that would scare them a bit.
In the beginning…So was man created in verse 2? They weren’t ‘created’ till much later on, “6 days” later. So was it in the beginning? What is the difference between 6 days and 14 billion years? Neither are beginning.
If I car, and I talk about it with my friends, I would say, "In the beginning, I ‘made this car, for this reason I will race’. What did I do on day one, how long did it take me to build this car? I first made blue prints and engineering drafts. The first bolts got tightened, it didn’t race yet, it wasn’t a car before the body got placed over the frame ect.
Jesus can say in the beginning God created man, because God did. He created all of creation for the purpose of a man and women (and finely tuned the universe and our laws so that we can exist), and that man and women to be united. He also created man for His glory and demonstration of His love, which was later revealed to us through Jesus. Who was the firstborn among creation. 1 Col 1:15-20 For in Him and all things were created…through Him and for Him.
This happens to be “Moses interpretation” and “what really happened”.
I agree, the flood (possibly local) is what really happened. So was the creation of man and women in the beginning.
I’m still not seeing this. It seems to me like you want to see this, therefore can? He equated the flood to what will happen in the end times, it will be unexpected. 1 Thes 5:2. Rev 16:15. Mat 24:43. The thief is most likely a parable/analogy than historical event, but they are extraordinary events are they? Or miraculous?
This is perfect. The overall meaning is about growth, YET a very specific (untrue as I am told, but I am no botanist no know much about seed sizes) detail is spoken that says “Though it is the smallest of all seeds”.
This is exactly what many are saying about the flood. It uses specific details of boat dimensions and says world and uses universal language. But the overall meaning is about God’s redemption, it isn’t about the detail or size of the flood, nor about the details or the size of the mustard seed.
Quantum physics doesn’t tell us this. Quantum theory tells us this. quantum physics tells us that newtons laws or much of what we thought of as acceptable laws don’t work like we thought. From this, we can make all kinds of theories.
I see the discovery of quantum physics as a humorous analogy to the book of Job. God is saying, you think you can figure me out, you can’t, so stop trying, and trust just me.
This is spoken by someone who didn’t understand the meaning or reason for hyperbole. Hyperbole is to add emphasis, urge importance. Not to know that it isn’t 100% exact and could never happen, so ignore it. I love @Mervin_Bitikofer analogies. It is exactly like a parent claiming you will die. They don’t want a bratty, know-it-all kid (Dawkins here) to respond with, I probably won’t die, statistically speaking, there is only a .00051% chance of me dying, so I should ignore you. They want the kid to be scared or respect the road so they don’t die or cause an accident or an unnecessary event, had they looked both ways. So reading hyperbole, should have one put that much more importance on the message behind the hyperbole. Like the eye gouging.
Same with the flood or the creation story. I would understand it the same as they did. That they are accounts that happened where we can learn many things from. We can see the purpose and function of our lives and the cosmos in the creation account, we can see the love of God and justice and redemption in the flood account. The Bible wasn’t teaching history, every one knew about the flood and have their own account of it, they weren’t trying to inform or convince others of it, they had a narrative about it they wanted known. The same narrative they wanted known 3000 years ago, is to be known now.
I have to like this just for the dumb&dumber reference.
Are these really the results of God’s body parts? Or is God using language that we can understand. Is Jesus really the “Son” of God? Did God birth Jesus through some woman? He uses Jesus as the Son of God, because we can relate to a son, we understand the love one has for the son. They Bible uses head, bride, arm ect. These are all things that we understand the function and relationship of, they are not necessarily saying God has these. It also says something like a bunch of eyes and wings and stuff. God doesn’t need eyes, eyes are limited to a field of view, if you know everything, you don’t need to see it, you see it in your mind.
These were snake charmers that claimed this, common. Just because something is written in the Bible, doesn’t mean it is the words of God, or is correct, or God wants us to agree with it.
2 Sam 11:3-4 “and David sent someone to find out about her. The man said, “She is Bathsheba, the daughter of Eliam and the wife of Uriah the Hittite.” 4 Then David sent messengers to get her. She came to him, and he slept with her.”
So does that mean God wants us to sleep with women after we find out they are married? Of course not, there is context to things and others thoughts and words are captured in the Bible.
The truths are God are sacred/special, the words are just that, words. I don’t think God wants us to know of His “spiritual fingers” through the thoughts of snake charmers.
The same can be said about all of His ‘body parts’.
simply means secure
Just means God sees them, and/or watches them, again implying security
strong, powerful, accomplishes things
Strong, powerful, accomplishes things
My desire, my compassion, my love, my being and efforts.
personal, shared wisdom, help, correct, guide
secure, strong/immovable/unshakable foundation