There may be local differences between the regions although all areas should follow the directions given from the USA headquarters. Here, the JWs have clearly stressed the need to act in an even-tempered and almost friendly way. All who have visited my door during the last years have behaved in an almost identical way, like they were following a learned pattern. Nothing to complain in that.
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I’m not in the USA. UK JWs have a different organisation.
I can’t speak of the JWs in our area of the U.S. here since I’ve never had any come to our door within memory. But I can chime in that the Mormon’s who have visited us (repeatedly) have been courteous and not pushy. Granted, I was trying to be on my best behavior myself and invited them in (with genuine curiosity), which probably alone would have set me apart from most of their other experiences. So I’m imagining that after that reception they probably saw my house as the “goto” place, especially if they had a new recruit tagging along. “Go to Merv’s place - and he’ll have a proper chat!" (I like to think it might have been something like that!) So for several years our house was a regular stopping point for them.
Then we moved. (Not because of that, though! 
)
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No exemptions required. No explanations required. You simply can’t be compelled to do that.*
Well, some may try coercion, but they’re opening themselves up for unhappy times ahead.
*Even in Texas and Oklahoma….
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All Americans have the right to abstain from reciting the Pledge of Allegiance. Under the
1943 Supreme Court case West Virginia State Board of Education v. Barnette, public school students cannot be forced to salute the flag or recite the pledge. While many states mandate the pledge, they must include exemptions for personal, religious, or philosophical objections.
Key details regarding exemptions:
- Students: Public school students have a First Amendment right to sit or remain silent during the pledge. Although some states like Florida, Texas, and Utah require parental permission for a student to opt out, legal precedent protects the student’s right to abstain.
- Teachers/Employees: Employees of public institutions cannot be forced to lead or recite the pledge.
- Citizenship Oath: Prospective citizens can request modifications to the Oath of Allegiance based on religious training or deeply held moral/ethical codes, as outlined in USCIS guidance.
- Protest: Individuals cannot be forced to participate in ceremonies that violate their personal beliefs.
Attempts to punish students for not standing or participating are considered violations of the First Amendment.
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I agree with and disagree with aspects of both. For me it’s easier to just state what I personally do as a Christian who while not aligned with young earth conservative biblical literalists who as time goes by finds myself moving further and further down the road of liberalism and even into leftism and socialism and increasing becoming more vocal about the love I have for my faith, for animal rights and for science.
First I’m consistent in every space. Does not matter if it’s at work, while hiking, with family or even with those who I don’t like. I try to be as consistent as possible. I find myself increasingly influenced by the love I see from humanity and especially from men like James Talarico.
Anyone who holds a conversation with me for more than 20 minutes will most likely hear about my faith, my scientific stances and why I am vegan. I am in south Alabama. So the overwhelming majority of people I meet randomly in day to day life are conservative pro Trump creationist who are also some of the people I can’t stand the most. I struggle with loving them. Not just from recently but from the same alt right evangelistic hate I’ve dealt with my whole life.
I’ve always been a horror nerd. When I was a little kid I lived for goosebumps. Had pillowcases, shirts, socks and even if I was going to a friends house back in the early 90s and none of us had internet and so we often played board games I would without fail bring my goosebumps monopoly game board. I brought tapes of books and radio stations that was horror driven collected mostly by my grandmother to places. While more tech was out it did not exist where I was especially among those of us who lived miles out on dirt roads in trailers.
So I often heard rebukes such as “appearance of evil” or “don’t talk of darkness” and so on. Often was criticized as a kid and teen for wearing Jason Friday the 13th shirt or something by Tim Burton to church or school.
My dad was not very religious. He had bad experiences with church but believed in god. He did not know hardly anything about science but accepted it. So he believed by default we evolved but had no idea how. So I was raised that evolution was just true and how it fit with the Bible, no body knew and nobody cared. There was phases of fundamentalism from my mom but she also grew up in a very superstitious Appalachia type household and we had indigenous family memebers through marriage and so the medicine man, who was a woman, would routinely do stuff for us and that includes little rituals and stuff for our pets when they were sick. If everyone got sick or seemed like everyone was in a bad mood my mom or someone would do stuff like toss salt all over the floors and we would sweep it up and toss it outside. So it was never really hardcore mainstream Christianity in my house.
This often led to me being criticized by others. I was gothy and many friends were gay including my bestfriend Bo whose house I stayed at all the time. We bonded over horror and anime and stuff like invader zim. Bought all kinds of vhs and dvds from flee markets.
So my entire life I have grown up always feeling a bit hostile towards the typical conservative Christian.
So said all of that to set up this. It’s been part of my entire life to have to defend myself against the majority of people around me. Always been this issue with catching side eyes and so on from thoughts and what I wore.
So for me where I live there are very few atheists. Most are Christian and those not Christian are agnostic who’s mostly influenced by Christian propaganda.
When I go hiking and I meet someone I’ll mention ecology and discuss science and I’ll also mention creation. Like I’ll say something to strangers who I meet out while hiking “ like this dwarf pawpaw tree is the host plant for the zebra swallowtail which means they coevoled together and as the plant developed specific chemical compositions of toxins in their foilage the caterpillars of this species developed the ability to safely metabolize it though they would get sick if they tried to eat oak leaves and that Gods creation is just so cool. Normally I’ll either hear something about don’t believe in God or don’t meet many Christians who believe in evolution or I’ll hear the opposite and they don’t believe in evolution and curious why so I. So I’ll explain it. If they say “ oh I don’t believe in God” I’ll lean way more heavily into showcasing my understanding of the natural world of Alabama to “prove” I’m not some anti science idiot and then in about 45 seconds explain why it’s not a issue for my faith.
When I’m at a church and I visit at least one church a month that I don’t routinely go to. Often it’s my first time there. During meet and greet I’ll purely drop comments about liking AOC, Newsome or make a statement like I’m praying to God that the next candidate is not like Trump and normally ruffled some
Feathers. But in person most are more polite and so we will have a mini slightly heated dicussiin about why believe what I believe. Right now I most often find myself quoting verses about being kind to the immigrants among you, and mention how many are our brothers and sisters in Christ and how it seems like it’s not just criminals but working moms being targeted.
If I’m finding myself surrounded by atheists, and the talk is mostly science but some anti religious stuff pops up I’ll politely speak out that Christianity is very diverse. I’ll share a bit of my beliefs. Most again are polite even if some debate pops up but when I admit that I don’t see any scientific proof for god and that it may very well be a delusion they tend to just accept it’s my fisth and it’s what I feel and it’s a no issue.
The most heated discussions are about animal rights. When I go and order food at a restaurant and get vegan food I am almost always asked are you vegan. I say yes. They almost always tell me they just can’t live without meat. It’s so good. I’ll explain yeah it tastes good, but you can live without it. Normally I’m stronger, faster and in better shape than them and so the discussion leads into how do you get protein and I explain amino acids. Often down here they eventually say…. Well god placed them here for us to eat and so I’ll discuss why I disagree with that sentiment. This is probably the one I have the hardest time not being mean about. I will have to be very active in keeping my thoughts and tongue captive and in check.
Nothing is more triggering to me than someone whose out of shape, sloppy and look like they are a dude who could wear a bra and should walk around with a oxygen tank trying to tell me about how we need to eat animals and then be accused of spending all kinds of money on steroids or protein powders when I’ve never done steroids in my life and I go months or even over a year without protein powder. Though I’m starting to buy it more to add 20g of plant based protein to my oatmeal that I’m editing more often for breakfast.
If someone tells me that they don’t believe in god and don’t want to discuss I’m drop it about 99% of the convo. It may still show up in the form of frank Peretti is a horror author whose Christian, or that someone like Francis Collins whose involved with the human genome project is also a Christian or that it’s as simple as well I need to go I go to sleep early with the only exception really being if I’m going to church that Wednesday.
I’ll join groups that are science focused with implied atheism or groups that are Christian where I know most will be young earthers and I’ll share my stances. I’ll joint hunting groups on Facebook and even if I never mention anything I find cruel about hunting directly I’ll mention how I love to track raccoons, possums, otters, deer and so on to get pictures of them. That I prefer to aim and shoot with a camera and bring up how I forage for mushrooms. I’ll befriend a hunter and talk a lot about why I love turkeys, their evolutionary history, how intelligent they are, and how I love to track them and just watch them and we will go out without a gun and track something, get pics and I’ll show them edible plants and mushrooms and do a bit of lite animal rights talk.
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I don’t share your enjoyment of horror genre media but that only means others appeal to me more. I certainly don’t think it makes you dark or evil.
I salute your pro-animal stance and I love the whole natural world too. Even though I don’t go so far as you do toward avoiding eating flesh I admire you for it. Probably the difference is that I don’t approach morality as something to push to the limit as far toward sainthood as possible as it sometimes seems to me that Christianity seems to encourage. Sometimes there seems to be a competitive edge to it.
I still don’t want to see animals suffer, but we are omnivores and some of the species doing the best job of holding their own under our domination are those which we raise for food. I wish we could limit our dominion in such a way as to allow as many animals as possible to live naturally in the kinds of habitats they need than to continue increasing our foot print in the planet’s biomass. I dislike monocultures such as lawn grass and I think it looks just as bad when it is human beings stretching as far as the eye can see.
Your sensitivity toward people with different orientations than your own I also find admirable and would never contribute to marginalizing any group. No one should assume everyone should check all the boxes they do. I’m pro diversity there too. That is another place where the heavy doctrinal stances of Christianity rub me the wrong way. I still think Christianity can be distilled to what is best about it but even there I accept differences of stances no matter how narrow and bigoted at times.
I’m glad there are voices like yours in the Christian tent.
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Speaking of wonderfully kind Mormons…
Donations pour in for family of gunman in Michigan church attack
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AFAIK, JWs are an organisation that is directed strictly by the Governing Body, situated in USA (Warwick, NY). The Governing Body formulates doctrines, overseers the production of written material and administers the worldwide operations. The Service Committee of the Governing Body overseers the evangelical activities.
Regional suborganisations (branch offices) have some operational independence but only within the limits set by the USA headquarters. The Governing Body directly appoints branch office committee members and traveling overseers. All branch offices report their activities to the headquarters, including also an annual report of the preaching activities.
So, UK should not (cannot) have a different organisation.
Gary….Scenario #1 seems stereotypical…never lived in such a town so overrun by one POV….might exist somewhere But these people would be doing what Jesus told His followers to do. It’s not inappropriate and not trolling….atheists troll too, btw! A “No Soliciting” sign in the yard or on the front door should do the trick. Problem solved.
Scenario #2…well the atheist has no mandate from heaven. It may come from other supernatural abodes. But anyone can –believer or non believer –can have that “No Soliciting” sign on their lawn—front door, etc.
Several times a month is low key harassment. If the local Avon lady was knocking at your door several times a month even after being asked not to, wouldn’t that be a bit rude?
The vast majority of atheists are fine with the occasional breaching of a strict wall between church and state, such as prayers before sporting events in a heavily Christian population. All we ask is that we aren’t treated harshly for not bowing our heads and such. We are fine with standing.
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The atheist family is free not to listen or participate.
Let me ask you this: How would you feel if your local high school (which your children or grandchildren attend and engage in group sports) asked everyone in attendance at every school sporting event to stand, take off their hats, and bow their heads for the reading (over the stadium speakers) of the Atheist Manifesto?
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What? are you nuts? The Atheist Manifesto: The Case Against Christianity, Judaism, and Islam – April 1, 2011 is 264 pages long.
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You are right. There wouldn’t be any time left for the game! How about this: The Affirmation of Secular Humanism:
We are committed to the application of reason and science to the understanding of the universe and to the solving of human problems. We deplore efforts to denigrate human intelligence, to seek to explain the world in supernatural terms, and to look outside nature for salvation. We believe that scientific discovery and technology can contribute to the betterment of human life. We believe in an open and pluralistic society and that democracy is the best guarantee of protecting human rights from authoritarian elites and repressive majorities. We are committed to the principle of the separation of church and state. We cultivate the arts of negotiation and compromise as a means of resolving differences and achieving mutual understanding. We are concerned with securing justice and fairness in society and with eliminating discrimination and intolerance.
We believe in supporting the disadvantaged and the handicapped so that they will be able to help themselves. We attempt to transcend divisive parochial loyalties based on race, religion, gender, nationality, creed, class, sexual orientation, or ethnicity, and strive to work together for the common good of humanity. We want to protect and enhance the earth, to preserve it for future generations, and to avoid inflicting needless suffering on other species. We believe in enjoying life here and now and in developing our creative talents to their fullest. We believe in the cultivation of moral excellence.
We respect the right to privacy. Mature adults should be allowed to fulfill their aspirations, to express their sexual preferences, to exercise reproductive freedom, to have access to comprehensive and informed health-care, and to die with dignity. We believe in the common moral decencies: altruism, integrity, honesty, truthfulness, responsibility. Humanist ethics is amenable to critical, rational guidance. There are normative standards that we discover together. Moral principles are tested by their consequences. We are deeply concerned with the moral education of our children. We want to nourish reason and compassion.
We are engaged by the arts no less than by the sciences. We are citizens of the universe and are excited by discoveries still to be made in the cosmos. We are skeptical of untested claims to knowledge, and we are open to novel ideas and seek new departures in our thinking. We affirm humanism as a realistic alternative to theologies of despair and ideologies of violence and as a source of rich personal significance and genuine satisfaction in the service to others.
We believe in optimism rather than pessimism, hope rather than despair, learning in the place of dogma, truth instead of ignorance, joy rather than guilt or sin, tolerance in the place of fear, love instead of hatred, compassion over selfishness, beauty instead of ugliness, and reason rather than blind faith or irrationality. We believe in the fullest realization of the best and noblest that we are capable of as human beings.
If a public high school required everyone to stand and listen to an “Affirmation of Secular Humanism” over the PA system, I would oppose it for the same reason I oppose school-sponsored sectarian prayer: public schools should not use official channels to sponsor ideological or religious observance.
Students and families are a captive audience. “Just don’t listen” is not an adequate answer when the institution is leading it.
So yes — your analogy makes the point: state institutions should not platform a creed (religious or anti-religious) as part of a school event, and participation should never be socially or formally coerced.
Private individuals praying quietly is different; a school broadcast is institutional speech.
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Gary, we’ve now cycled through variations of the same core issues: freedom and rebellion, suffering and divine goodness, and institutional neutrality. I’ve tried to respond to each by identifying the underlying philosophical premises involved.
At this point, if you believe one of those core premises is internally incoherent, feel free to state that directly. Otherwise, I’m content to let readers weigh the arguments already on the table.
I don’t have anything further to add.
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Hear, hear! I applaud your position, Terry.
No one (Christian, Muslim, Jew, or atheist) should be coerced to participate (“please stand, remove your hats, and bow your heads”) or even have to listen to a religious/satanist/atheist ceremony/announcement/prayer at a public school or other public facility or event.
We are in agreement (a miracle!)
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Just replace this one early sentence - maybe with something more like:
“We deplore efforts to denigrate human intelligence, including the denigration of those who adhere to particular religious faiths so long as those faiths don’t lead them to trample on the flourishing of others.”
Make that one replacement, and I think I’d be ready to pretty much sign off on that entire ‘manifesto’! (and would in fact see it as a very Christian kind of commitment!)
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Not very good but I would not be sending my children to such a school. But if they were reading scripture the atheist still has that choice or leave.