If it all be possible, let this cup pass from me

“…before Abraham was born, I AM!”
John 8:58

“I and the Father are one.”
John 10:30

Sneaky and ambiguous. :slightly_smiling_face:

Yes. Very ambiguous.

When was Jesus correct? When he said he was not good only three father is good or when he said before Abraham I was?

You mentioned Jesus saying him and the father are one. So are we.

John 17:20-23
New American Standard Bible
20 “I am not asking on behalf of these alone, but also for those who believe in Me through their word, 21 that they may all be one; just as You, Father, are in Me and I in You, that they also may be in Us, so that the world may believe that You sent Me.

Disciples’ Future Glory
22 The glory which You have given Me I also have given to them, so that they may be one, just as We are one; 23 i in them and You in Me, that they may be perfected in unity, so that the world may know that You sent Me, and You loved them, just as You loved Me.

He did not say he was not good.

“This is my beloved Son, with whom I am well pleased.”
Matthew 3:17

He knew who he was.

He also never said I am God. It seems you want him to have said things he never said.

Have you read through John 8?

He says he’s the son of God.
He also says the Pharisees are the sons of the devil.

He says he and the father is one. He also says all Christians are one and we are one in him snd they are one in us.

The only way to make Jesus into a divine being with all power and all authority who knew everything is to reject a lot of scripture.

Becsuse again, to connect the dots it requires someone to get ambiguous metaphorical language and use that to interpret the very clear language.

There is a reason why the term Trinity is not in the Bible. There is a reason why those who push the Trinity Ignore the angel of the lord and the angel of god, or either say actually Jesus was one of those angels but it was not really a angel but the other two was angels and so on.

God says he is immortal.
Jesus was born and died.

God says he is all powerful.
Jesus says the father is all powerful and rose him from the dead.

God says he can’t be tempted.
Jesus says he was tempted.

God says he knows everything.
Jesus did not know everything.

God says for us to do his will.
Jesus says I’ll do your will, not my own.

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We disagree about his knowledge and self-awareness of who he was.

Exactly. His beloved son.

Not quite. His beloved Son.

They had no capitalization. That’s just translators feeding their own doctrinal views into it.

John 14:1
New American Standard Bible
Jesus Comforts His Disciples

14 “Do not let your heart be troubled; believe in God, believe also in Me.

Jesus says to believe in two things? What were those two things?

Who did Jesus say to pray too?

Who did Jesus say he received all his power and authority from?

Greek does have capitalization, but I cannot speak to the capitalization in extant manuscripts without investigating further.
 

I don’t know how full it was, when it started, how full it became and when, but it absolutely was not nothing nor never.

There is a less than remote likelihood that he was aware of the trinitarian nature of the Godhead.

Well when we find Bible verses that says so and find a way to get rid of all the other ones that don’t I’ll consider it.

But when I see someone says, “ Jesus and the father are one” meaning they are both literally one then all I can think of is that it says “ we are all one” and when someone says that Jesus says “ I am in my father and my father is in me” meaning they are one literally then I have to ask what about us?

John 14:20-21
New American Standard Bible
20 On that day you will know that I am in My Father, and you are in Me, and I in you. 21 The one who has My commandments and keeps them is the one who loves Me; and the one who loves Me will be loved by My Father, and I will love him and will reveal Myself to him.”

Or why does Jesus say only god is good, snd why does he say to pray to the father, and why does he say the father is greater than he and ect. In John 14:28.

   

Aware of future human theology, you mean? Neither of these words, “trinitarian” or “Godhead,” had been used by anyone – and not being in the Bible, I am not sure I approve of equating them with the nature of God at all.

As for the actual nature of God, it depends on what you mean exactly… If unlike Vinnie you take the gospel of John seriously then we have Jesus own words in chapter 14…

John 14:8 Philip said to him, “Lord, show us the Father, and we shall be satisfied.” 9 Jesus said to him, “Have I been with you so long, and yet you do not know me, Philip? He who has seen me has seen the Father; how can you say, ‘Show us the Father’? 10 Do you not believe that I am in the Father and the Father in me? The words that I say to you I do not speak on my own authority; but the Father who dwells in me does his works. 11 Believe me that I am in the Father and the Father in me; or else believe me for the sake of the works themselves. 12 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who believes in me will also do the works that I do; and greater works than these will he do, because I go to the Father.

Jesus says here that He and the Father are one and if you want to know the Father then you have but to look at the Son. This is the truth behind the human theology of the Trinity and we have very little reason to take either the words “Trinity” or “Godhead” seriously at all.

I quoted all the way to verse 12 because I find it fascinating that this comes directly after the one I was thinking of. Jesus and the Father are one but it has absolutely NOTHING to do with power. Being God is not about power, any more than being human is about abilities such as intelligence or technology. If we lose the power to walk or even to talk, it does not meant that we cease to be human, and someone with less intelligence is not less human.

You don’t believe in the Trinity, I take it. If you do, we are talking about eternal reality, not ‘future human theology’.

Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit…
Matthew 28:19

Did Jesus know who he really was only after the resurrection, or not even then?
 

Let us fix our eyes on Jesus, the author and perfecter of our faith, who for the joy set before Him endured the cross, scorning its shame, and sat down at the right hand of the throne of God.
Hebrews 12:2

I think Jesus always knew who he was. The son of god, a human, who was given all power and authority by his father.

That seems contradictory to what you said previously. As a mere human, why would he think he was given all power and authority by his Father?

Because God did.

“All authority on heaven and earth has been given to me”

I’m not sure how you see it as contradictory or different from anything I’ve said the whole time.

It does depend on the explanation.

What can actually be found in the Bible? Yes.

That Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are three distinct persons but only one God? Yes.

Creed of Nicea 325AD. Yes.

The Apostles creed? No. This was never agreed to by any ecumenical council.

That God is three? No. God is one.

That Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are three parts of God like the body, mind, and soul of God or some other type of modalism? No. Jesus is God, not part of God. The Father is God, not part of God. The Holy Spirit is God, not part of God…

That Father and Son can be separated from each other? No, that is not possible.

Monotheism? Yes.

Polytheism? No.