The flip side of this discussion is we also evolved with a sense of reciprocal altruism.
Another scapegoat for God created by some fellow EC here . You have no evidence backing up your argument. Who says God didn’t insist morals before even the evolution to people but where hidden somehow until evolution ?
What part of the bible talks directly about free will?
If that is so, why do we not act on it?
I think most people would consider the general behaviour to be selfish not selfless
Richard
Great question (hi, Nick!) Do you think that punishment implies free will? I don’t know.
One additional note to what has already been commented: what if God created the best possible world?
Some combinations seem to be unavoidable. If you have free will, then you must have a possibility to make a ‘wrong’ decision, something with bad consequences.
There may be other unavoidable(?) combinations, like if tectonic plates move, that causes damage and sometimes suffering and deaths. I am not an expert in geology, so I cannot say how necessary it was to make a geologically active planet but that is what we have.
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Hi Randy!!
Can you elaborate further what you mean? I’m kinda confused on the question sorry
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Good question–I’m not sure what is meant by free will, but the implication of responsibility that we have when we are punished for certain things (if we do choose them), then it’ seems to me to imply that we at least believe there is a will we can move–but what that means, I’m not sure. Good discussion.
My parents, who were so kind and Christlike that they helped me get a better idea of Christ, always gave me the benefit of the doubt when I did something wrong–if I had a reason I meant something else. It made me want to be good, and not give up! But I’m not sure what responsibility is–and if we have it.
Thanks
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In what way God punishes people though? How? Because last time I checked it seems all the evil guys are doing better than most of us lol.
The real question is if God is willing to destroy evil. Which that idea was non existent to ancient writers and theologians. Some groups did believe God was part evil as well. You can check out my new thread one that.
How can a free will beign harm another free will beign? Like let’s say for example someone tried to hurt you. His free will makes him choose this action. Your free will is good and makes you choose the other action (forgiving him,deascalating the situation whatever it is).
So the evil person hurts you.
Why is his will imposed on yours? Why are his actions manifesting rather than your ones?
Why his evil freewill prevail over your good freewill? You both have freewill to choose the actions you did. Why his prevails?
Mainstream Christians will say “It’s because God gives Satan power to test you” which you can see it doesn’t make any sense and it really weighs on the favour of God beign evil.
God is not entirely evil. He is both good and evil. And that’s fine somewhat
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That is a very old argument.
Evil has no conscience or morals so it does not need to consider others, whereas Good always considers everybody. Therefore evil will always triumph It is unfair but inevitable.
And there is no way around it other than to autocratically stop Eveil, which consequentially cancels free wil/ It is an impossible paradox.
Even God cannot overcome this paradox. it is part of the nature of creating (yes that was deliberate)
So you like it or lump it. No amount of complaints can change it. Good is always at a disadvantage to evil.
So if you want to be successful? Be evil! (And take the consequences whatever they may or may not be in the long term… And that is down to God alone)
Richard
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You just admitted God not being all powerfull a thing I’ve said long before lol. Hense God created something he himself cannot control it seems . This arises another problem though
How come an all powerfull God create something he can’t change nor control?
Isn’t that contradictory to the Christian hope? That he will return and destroy evil once and for all?
Troubling questions lol. Maybe there isn’t any hope after this life anyway. Maybe evil prevails in the end.
Maybe just maybe the ressurection was nothing else than bogus(I don’t want to believe that ,yet)
God created the reality. He created the restrictions. He abides by them
Give it a rest mate.
Richard
Any evidence to suggest he abides by them?
Because the incarnation ressurection and the countless supposed miracles and punishments say otherwise.
Give it a rest. This not a battle you want.
In all this, Job did not sin or charge God with wrongdoing.
Job 1:22
God is free to send us trials, and they are ultimately good.
Dear friends, do not be surprised at the fiery ordeal that has come on you to test you, as though something strange were happening to you.
1 Peter 4m12
In all circumstances take up the shield of faith, with which you can extinguish all the flaming darts of the evil one.
Ephesians 6:16
Indeed. And this is an important part of evolution also. Organisms evolve because they face challenges. This is a more likely role for God in evolution than controlling mutations. This is a role given God (or His servants) in the Bible.
Yes/and…
The lot is cast into the lap, but its every decision is from the Lord.
Proverbs 16:33
“We have to believe in free will, we have no choice.” I.B. Singer 
Are we talking theology or science, the VFB or the VFA? We’re clueless how he controls, we just know that he does.
No. Whatever you may believe, I don’t believe God is a control freak. I believe in the God who chose love and freedom over power and control – and I always will. It is the only God worth believing in. Atheism is preferable to me over the watchmaker control god.
There is no battle. Just opinions and rhetoric
Any evidence about God is subjective and personal. So strictly the answer is no
This is not about evidence it is about your views on God and the world and the fact that you think God made a hash of it.
Which says more about you than it does about God
Richard
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Whatever you may believe about what I believe, neither do I believe God is a control freak.
That just demonstrates that you do not know what I know about the vitality of the loving Father who marvelously, personally and dynamically intervenes into his children’s lives through his providence. Your watchmaker control freak characterization just displays your mistaken preconceptions.
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Maggie had factual, not subjective, evidence about God, and so did Rich Stearns. Phil Yancey did too.
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