Hi, Joe. Thanks for the reply. I still plan to get to that word study one day. Haha. On to the show…
Before responding directly, I should say that I seem to have given the wrong impression. My interests lie in the area of evangelism. I have only a tangential interest in the debate on evolution, and that only because it is part of the same complex of issues that are creating barriers to belief in the younger generation and the unchurched. I will not go into specifics in this thread, but you are welcome to peruse my comments in threads like How do we “bend the curve” and Eastern v Western angles on truth.
The statement that I challenged was that genetic code = language. To me, you were making the claim that genetic code and human language were not analogous, but identical by definition. I definitely would challenge this, as human language is far more complex fluid than I think you realize. If you are claiming that genetic code = computer code, I would not argue with that, but I don’t have the expertise to judge that claim either way. In any case, I also would note that computer code is also not identical to human language, but is similar only by analogy. Computer code may be directly comparable to genetic code, but both codes are related to real human language only by analogy, which shouldn’t be confused with the real thing (actual language as spoken by actual human beings).
Because Torley was praising Axe’s book to high heaven in the Methodological Naturalism thread prior to writing the review. I didn’t have the energy to go look up his posts there, but you’re welcome to verify it for yourself, if you’d like.
See above. Also, Torley said in his review that he had only changed his mind in the last few weeks. Do you have reason to doubt this? Perhaps if you used Google search instead of just ENV you would find a long history of Torley writing about and defending ID.[quote=“deliberateresult, post:25, topic:5625”]
it is more appropriate to consider Torley more of a maverick who sees the controversy on his own terms than “one of (ID’s) own.” I have no problem with such a position, but let’s be honest about it. It is also not inappropriate, if we intend to be seduced by the impression dr. Swamidass wants us to take away from this forum, to note that the two enjoy at least a bit of a mutual admiration that goes back farther than Axe’s book.
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“Seduced”? Really? Are we comparing Swamidass to the snake in the garden? haha.
From my outsider perspective, it seems that all the players in the ID/DI/EC/TC/YEC/OTHERRIDICULOUSACRONYMS camps know one another. It’s a pretty small circle. To say that Torley and Swamidass know one another and respect one another’s opinions is one thing. To insinuate that this is proof of bias is something else entirely. So, despite your stated intention that you don’t intend to impugn them and despite invoking Christian brotherhood, you go ahead and do exactly that. Pretty lame, if you ask me.
This actually illustrates a good point, though. I found it interesting that Torley changed his mind based on input from Christian scientists. (I always hate saying that. Reminds me of Mary Baker Eddy. Eeeek!) Usually, the criticisms of ID arguments are coming from “atheist scientists,” which makes it all too easy to write off their points as biased. BUT … when Christian scientists criticize a particular ID author’s arguments, they, too, are accused of bias. What is going on here?! Is everyone who criticizes an ID author guilty of bias???
Honestly, this so-called “controversy” between ID/EC/TE is a tempest in a teapot, and I’m just about done with it.
Torley isn’t a prosecutor. Let’s hear some thoughts on the arguments, rather than the person, for a change. Trying to discredit the messenger is a typical political tactic. Makes me want to vomit. You’re better than this, Joe.
Evidence? You mean the evidence you were trying to dig up to discredit Torley? Discuss the ideas, then.