97% of all animals, marine and land, which have ever existed, are not found as fossils. The Leviathon in my mind is an animal that is among the 97% who left no fossils. I will quote something from my blog:
Colin Tudge observes,
" Logic dictates, too, that the oldest known fossils cannot possibly be the oldest representatives of their kind. Fossilization is a rare event, after all; and when animals first appear, they are rare. The earliest fossil bones are therefore likely to date from a time when their erstwhile owners were already common. Logic similarly dictates that if an animal is particularly unlikely to form fossils–as primates seem to be–then paleontologists are particularly unlikely to find the very earliest types. In fact, this logic can be translated into a mathematical formula (see Robert D. Martin, ““Primate Origins: Plugging the Gaps,”” Nature, May 20, 1993, pp 223-234). The fewer fossils there are (relative to the calculated number of extinct species), the older the group is liable to be, relative to the number of fossils found. " 2
So, how rare is the fossilization of a species ? To answer that, we must ask look at how many species alive today are found as fossils. Consider what Foote et al,
" The number of living species that have been described is about 1.5 million…If we focus on the paleontologically important groups, present-day diversity is about 180,000 species. …Suppose we assume that the present-day level of diversity was attained immediately at the beginning of the Cambrian Period and has been maintained since then. Then 25 percent of 180,000 species, or 45,000 species became extinct and were replaced by new species every million years. In rough terms, the Phanerozoic is 550 million years log. this leads to an estimate that there have been 180,000+(45,000 X 550) or about 25 million species. Comparing this with the 300,000 described fossil species implies that between 1 percent and 2 percent of species are known as fossils. " 3
While the Greeks emphasize the “good gods” defeating the beasts through human heroes (Theseus, Herakles), the Hebrew tales emphasize God’s role more directly
But whatever “Hydra” & “Minotaur” mean in the Greek myths, and they seem to have some historical roots, so “Leviathan” & “Behemoth” may mean in Hebrew?
Klax
(The only thing that matters is faith expressed in love.)
27
So where’s the literal? What is it?
Klax
(The only thing that matters is faith expressed in love.)
29
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And no, my question was rhetorical and no link is necessary. There is no literal meaning. The original mythic meaning, of the monstrous forces of chaos, were later applied to actual large sea creatures as well as nasty geopolitical neighbours where such myths were originally spawned. Myths of redemptive violence by mythical embodiments, ancestors of those states against chaos that in turn brings chaos to poor little Israel hemmed in by them all.
If all the verses of Levithan was to be taken literal that would mean there was a multiheaded fire breathing oceanic serpent dragon that god battled eventually and won by crushing its heads…
That seems very much like a metaphor using common Mesopotamian mythology found among the Semites and Sumerians.
Based on my understanding of Egyptian prehistory (e.g. the “King Scorpion defeats King Bull’s Head” engraving) and Australian aboriginal mythology, as well as Iroquois history, it seems universal that originally, all human groups adopted & identified animal totems
The surviving “echo” of the same in the west would be identification with favorite sports teams, like the “Raptors”, “Falcons”, “Bears” and so on
If so, “talking animal” imagery may symbolically recall ancient human groups, remembered according to their animal totem?
For example, there were many Australian aboriginal groups who identified with a “(Rainbow) serpent” totem
The Eden story might possibly refer (in part) to some sort of “snake people”, maybe ever so vaguely like “Thulsa Doom” from Conan or “Cobra” from GI Joe or some such – some sort of Biblically villainized “tribe of the snake” ?
And Leviathan, as the Hebrew version of the Ketos or Hydra, might refer to (say) 7 related “serpent snake clans” all descended from the same “snake culture”… which was defeated & suppressed by the Hebrews? As the likes of Joseph Campbell & Marija Gimbutas say is described by the Greek myths (which they interpret as reflecting the “Aryan Indo-European” conquest of the prior Neolithic farming serpentine “Goddess culture”)??
Since my 12 and 9 year old boys have been instructed to only draw Bible stuff in their sketchbooks during sermons, they LOVE Leviathan as a subject (next to Behemoth). Their interpretations are quite amazing. For what it is worth…imagination.may stand them in good stead when these deep questions arise. I wish I could give you more as a serious insight.
The Kabbalah says not to take anything in the Old Testament literally and interpretation of the Old Testament is only possible through numerology and the Kabbalah.
The Zohar has a different explanation on the Leviathan. The 7th Commandment in “the Lily” 226 says “And the Creator created great Leviathans. They were two: Orla (the foreskin) and Preia (the corona of the male organ)…”
Avodah Zarah 3b in the Talmud says G-d plays with Leviathan 3 hours a day.
So with the Zohar interpretation of what Leviathan is raises a whole new question.
Klax
(The only thing that matters is faith expressed in love.)
35
And how does this relate, in any way whatsoever, to the proposition of God revealed in Christ?
Since this predominantly a forum about Christianity and science, unless a scholar or someone else with an academic or casual interest those aspects of Judaism, I would expect very few to be able to address your question(s) directly.
The Kabbalah says not to take anything in the Old Testament literally and interpretation of the Old Testament is only possible through numerology and the Kabbalah.
The Zohar has a different explanation on the Leviathan. The 7th Commandment in “the Lily” 226 says “And the Creator created great Leviathans. They were two: Orla (the foreskin) and Preia (the corona of the male organ)…”
Avodah Zarah 3b in the Talmud says G-d plays with Leviathan 3 hours a day.
So with the Zohar interpretation of what Leviatan is raises a whole new question.
Klax
(The only thing that matters is faith expressed in love.)
39
And how does this relate, in any way whatsoever, to the proposition of God revealed in Christ?
My original comment was in regard to Orthodox Judaism’s views and beliefs on not only Leviathan but all aspects of the entire Old Testament. To them, the Old Testament is mystical and their study of the Torah is to unravel the mysteries through numerology and Kabbalah magic. In their mystical interpretation, God is both male and female( Bina and Hochmah) in the Sephirot and they had a daughter, Da’at who represented ‘knowledge’, and who left the family to come to earth as the demon Lilit/Lilith. Orthodox Judaism beliefs become a bit bizarre in numerous areas. One is that David did not commit adultery with Bathsheba because she had been ordained by God from the foundation of the world to become David’s wife and her husband Uriah was simply her heavenly guardian as through mysticism his name means Ohr Yod Hey or “Light of God”. Therefore, David did not sin except by having the “Light of God” killed yet was forgiven because of his error in not knowing that Uriah was God’s keeper of Bathsheba.
It just makes one realize The intensity of disdain for the “oral traditions” of the Pharisees.
