Human Interbreeding

[revealing]

@Bucky_Wood

Everything He created at the beginning has allowed such a perfect evolution (due to omnipotence, omniscience and omnibenevolence, that there has been no need for His intervention or modifications

You could also say such interventions were baked in from the beginning according to His purpose. Then it is only an intervention from our perspective seeing it happen.

@Bucky_Wood

Belief in God is both necessary and sufficient for salvation ? Bent…too much room for individual opinions.

True, but in spite of them the Good Book says we believe, we know, because He put His Spirit in us, compelling us to kindness, love, peace, happiness, mercy, respect… all the things we are free to do. Doing what we are compelled to do, what we want to do, as we both agree and desire such things. Seeing laws are weak as they will not change our hearts. Desiring one thing while doing another, that’s bondage. It is His loving spirit in us, not a fake it until you make it. Love, belief, faith are His Spirit given to us. Or simply, a change of heart is one gift, although the most important as good intent justifies us when we error. If we error, good intent deserves mercy, not punishment.

@Bucky_Wood

The Bible is inerrant? Bent

I’ll only provide a translation and leave it there to consider.
All scripture is given by inspiration [a clear view] of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
2-Timothy 3:16

@Bucky_Wood

Created "in his image "? Clearly bent, because we cannot agree on what this even means.

An interesting book of solomon<?> someone recently posted stated us being eternal is in Gods image. I suspect there is a list that can be made with this guideline.

@Bucky_Wood

Good works are important, even though Grace does not require it ?
But the Grace of God clearly does not demand it.

Are we forgetting the disabled and handicapped?

@Bucky_Wood

Without the Crucifixion and Resurrection, we could not be saved ? Absolutely bent. God could have taken this action by any number of arbitrary means.

I agree but it seems He chose to use, and Jesus fulfilled, a law requested by Israel. He told them he desires mercy more than sacrifice but hold them to their oath just as we all are.

As to Jesus, his cruxifiction was only part of a bigger picture, the cap actually. The real sacrifice was Jesus’ own will, only doing and saying what our Father told him, even unto death. It is his complete sacrifice that makes him worthy to have authority and power over all things.

In essence, when Jesus speaks, who is talking? When Jesus does something, whose will is being done?

Like a seat in a stadium, behind a pillar. Reasoning won’t help you see, but moving and finding the right perspective, everything becomes obvious. All scripture is given by inspiration [a clear view] of God.

I’m not insisting anything or debating, just sharing what I see the best I can summarize it. Let me know if something is interesting and you would like more.

[DGX37]

@Klax

Nature does that from quantum perturbations on up.

Isn’t it true though that quantum fluctuations won’t exist without universe? There’s no space, even empty space, outside of our universe, after all. But there seems to be a lot of disagreements about this among scientists, at least that’s how I see it, so I’m not sure.

[Klax (The only thing that matters is faith expressed in love.)]

@DGX37

@Klax

Nature does that from quantum perturbations on up.

Isn’t it true though that quantum fluctuations won’t exist without universe? There’s no space, even empty space, outside of our universe, after all. But there seems to be a lot of disagreements about this among scientists, at least that’s how I see it, so I’m not sure.

Space(time) exists wherever anything does. Our universe is mediocre, infinitesimal. Eternity seethes with infinite universes. But even that is irrelevant. Quantum fluctuations arise in absolutely nothing. Nature abhors even the absence of vacuum. That just may be intentional.

[mitchellmckain (Scientist and Christian)]

@revealing

@Bucky_Wood

Everything He created at the beginning has allowed such a perfect evolution (due to omnipotence, omniscience and omnibenevolence, that there has been no need for His intervention or modifications

You could also say such interventions were baked in from the beginning according to His purpose. Then it is only an intervention from our perspective seeing it happen.

So you guys are going the Deist route. It where the obsession with the idea of absolute foreknowledge and design leads quite naturally – the watchmaker God whose greatness/divinity is found in his intelligence, power, and control. But I don’t think that is the God of the Bible, who is a shepherd not a designer and His greatness/divinity is found in the wisdom, guidance, and service He gives to His flock.

One of the things recently which makes design and that watchmaker notion of God fall on its face is the new advent of AI which is frankly demonstrating that design and intelligence is something a machine can do and thus there is no greatness or divinity in these at all. So it is not only that the watchmaker god only makes machines but that he might as well be a machine.

@revealing

@Bucky_Wood

God could have taken this action by any number of arbitrary means.

I agree but it seems He chose to use, and Jesus fulfilled, a law requested by Israel. He told them he desires mercy more than sacrifice but hold them to their oath just as we all are.

And here we have the dreamer God who can do thing any way he pleases because nothing in a dream actually has to make any sense. I don’t think it is about arbitrary choices but about what what works. The long history of God with Israel show that God tried many things and the question is not what God chooses to do but what gets through their thick skulls and what people choose to respond to. And with Jesus I see this principle working right up to those three prayers in the garden of Gethsemane, where Jesus hoped for another way, but the lack of human response left only one way which would work.

@revealing

when Jesus speaks, who is talking?

God.

@revealing

When Jesus does something, whose will is being done?

God’s will.

But it doesn’t follow that God is will is arbitrary and unresponsive to reality and particularly the reality of people and what they choose to respond to.

[DGX37]

@Klax

Space(time) exists wherever anything does. Our universe is mediocre, infinitesimal. Eternity seethes with infinite universes. But even that is irrelevant. Quantum fluctuations arise in absolutely nothing. Nature abhors even the absence of vacuum. That just may be intentional.

Here we go into speculation, Space and time might have existed before Big Bang, but they might have not. Maybe every universe is on some huge plane of space or maybe there is no space outside of our universe at all, that begs a question how would those infinite universes be separated if there’s no space between them.

The point is that there’s no real certainty about any of those things.

[Klax (The only thing that matters is faith expressed in love.)]

@DGX37

@Klax

Space(time) exists wherever anything does. Our universe is mediocre, infinitesimal. Eternity seethes with infinite universes. But even that is irrelevant. Quantum fluctuations arise in absolutely nothing. Nature abhors even the absence of vacuum. That just may be intentional.

Here we go into speculation, Space and time might have existed before Big Bang, but they might have not. Maybe every universe is on some huge plane of space or maybe there is no space outside of our universe at all, that begs a question how would those infinite universes be separated if there’s no space between them.

The point is that there’s no real certainty about any of those things.

Only using rationality admittedly.