I had been spending time on atheist forums but found the prevailing attitudes and behavior vile. There were exceptions of course but I was really interested to understand the appeal of God belief. But whenever someone articulate and open who was a believer would wonder through, the worst would compete to drive them off. Eventually these Lord Of The Flies moments along with the smug assumption that having escaped religion made everyone some kind of genius became unbearable. Then I tried agnostic forums but got tired of watching the paint dry. Finally I discovered this place and have finally been able to satisfy my curiosity about the draw of God belief. I find I feel something similar but I don’t personify/deify what that is even though doing so does reflect it’s relative importance next to my personal capacity for cleverness. I think of it as being what gives rise to insight and inspiration though I lack a backstory for why I think it deserves the esteem I have for it. Let’s just say I’ve come to value and trust it anyway.
I can’t remember what lead me here but it might have been the science/faith connection. I have a younger brother who is a regular pew-warner and he used to initiate conversations around God with me in which I would suggest YEC wasn’t the only way to imagine his God. Alas I’ve never been able to interest him in checking this place out. He always seems to regard it as though I’d suggested he give the church of Satan a try.
But of course this place too has its share of clowns, polemicists and smug triumphalists just like the atheist forums. That is why I recently I chose to take a break from posting on the open forum. Attention is a precious commodity which I intend to disperse more judiciously from now on. If you don’t deserve it, you’re not getting any. If I don’t respond to your goading or questions I probably have you on ignore.
Thanks for the questions Randy and for your steady good neighborliness.
I was thinking about you yesterday as I was thinking about how various tribes and societies gave rise to particular god beliefs or territorial spirits that take on a life of their own. And then along came Israel and those gods are swept under the rug of Psalm 82:6-8.
The god belief of all god beliefs… it’s the belief is nearly hysterical.
I read somewhere there is this kind of site and was interested to find out more. As a biologist interested about the Logos, BioLogos was a promising word. The info that those writing to the site includes also people who know what they talk, scientists and other reasonable people, sounded promising. So I searched for the site and started reading.
Many posts and comments have included interesting bits of information. The broad scope of persons writing to the Forum has given a better understanding about the variety of ideas more or less reasonable people support.
I usually read the Humor in Science and Theology thread. It is very seldom boring and sometimes includes really funny insights.
I came here because i listened to the biologos founder on youtube and found his views interesting. I studied a little about theistic evolution at university, however, i have never agreed with the theory. I wanted to learn more about this world view because i believe in fair hearing from all sides.
I still do not agree with this world view, my theological knowledge is far to extensive to be able to consider this view as authoritative over self evident biblical revelation.
However, i genuinely value this forum as a learning tool. Individuals should be able to obtain knowledge and skills from a variety of sources and that enables them to choose wisely a balanced view that best fits their judgment.
Believe it or not it was a GOTquestions (yes the site got questions)moderator that first introduced me here(at that small period of time i was a YECer and new to christianity and was asking my questions there)
I got here via a link on the Age of Rocks blog, sometime in the summer of 2015. I was looking for resources that would help me to address the subject from a perspective that was both (a) honest and informed, and (b) unashamedly Christian.
I had started researching the subject because I had seen that the young earth lobby was getting out of hand. I had generally avoided the debate since giving up on YECism when I was at university, viewing it as the kind of foolish controversy that Paul tells us to avoid in Titus 3:9. But it had increasingly come to my attention that young earth teachings were having a real, harmful effect on people (including my own nephews, who were questioning their faith on account of it) while at the same time I’d noticed the increased militancy with which they were being promoted by organisations such as Answers in Genesis, and it had really, really shocked me. When one of my friends, who I’d have expected to know better, wrote a blog post denouncing anyone who didn’t acknowledge that Noah had dinosaurs on board the Ark as “faithless so-called Christians,” I realised I couldn’t remain silent any more.
The problem was that when I first started researching the subject, the rebuttals to YECism that I was aware of all approached it from what seemed to me to be a distinctly atheistic perspective. Sites such as RationalWiki, Talk Origins, No Answers in Genesis, Panda’s Thumb and Sensuous Curmudgeon sometimes seemed to be more interested in berating YECs for “introducing religious presuppositions into science” and squabbling over the First Amendment than in demanding that they get their facts straight; they often went beyond just critiquing YECism and attacked Christianity in general; and they sometimes degenerated into mocking and derisory tones that I found quite off-putting. To encounter organisations such as Reasons to Believe, BioLogos and the American Scientific Affiliation who shared my concerns and actually provided resources that addressed them firmly but respectfully, while remaining steadfastly Christian, was like a breath of fresh air.
That you don’t have to compromise the Bible or become a Progressive Christian if that’s not your thing, let alone abandon your faith altogether, in order to take evolution seriously as the rock-solid, well established, indisputable fact that it is.
Not recent, but the one clear winner by a country mile: when @Jay313 turned Danny Faulkner’s rebuttal of flat earthism into a rebuttal of young earthism by doing a simple find and replace for just five words.
Incidentally, has Answers in Genesis ever responded to that one?
No, not even after @Joel_Duff published a longer version on his blog. Good times!
What brought you to the BioLogos website?
Early in 2016 I started researching an idea for a book on the younger generation losing faith (the rise of the “nones”). I’d noted the trend for a long time anecdotally as a teacher and parent. So I was reading You Lost Me by Dave Kinnaman and he listed the anti-science mindset of the church as one of the main reasons young people were losing faith. That brought me to BioLogos. (I ultimately abandoned the book because I was too late. The trend only picked up steam after the 2016 election, if you get my drift.)
What is the most important, or interesting, thing you learned on the website (either the main BL one, or the discourse)?
I couldn’t pick just one thing. BioLogos has been an important part of my journey for years. From main I learned a lot about the basics of genetics and evolution, and the Forum offered me the chance to ask questions from people who knew far more than I ever will.
In short, BioLogos has been a blessing to me. I thank everyone involved from the top to the bottom. (That’s you, mods. haha)
A long time ago way back in 2012, I was harassing this poor guy at the ASA for not getting this promised website up that was supposed to review homeschool science material. He eventually admitted that they were not going to be able to do that project and put me in touch with Christine Stump, Jim’s wife, who at the time was working for BioLogos as an educational resources coordinator.
We communicated back and forth for a while, at some point she asked if I would write something for a book club on the Origins book that BioLogos was hosting, which I did. They had just switched from their old comment board software to Discourse with this book club and Chris asked me to please set up an account and add some pleasant, orthodox Christian discussion to the mix, because there was a lack of that. We moved soon after that to a location where I did not have DSL internet access in my home, I only had this USB stick that would get me connected to download my emails. It was really slow and couldn’t pull up most websites like Facebook, but since the Forum was very text-based with minimal graphics, I could read posts here and on a homeschool forum. I was very isolated socially at the time and found the discussions here interesting. At some point, Brad asked me to help out with moderating, so I did, and by that time I had better internet access so I have been hanging around ever since. Some things I had talked with Christine about way back in the beginning finally got moving with Kathryn Applegate and some grants, so I worked for four years on the Integrate curriculum, which was the best team I have ever been a part of. I have more work to do with my “real job” and some other BioLogos projects I have been working on, so I have not been able to spend as much time reading threads and commenting as I used to, but I still pop in as much as I can and am often inspired to think more deeply about things as a result.
Chance, luck, and providence. I been a YEC since I’d become a Christian but by 2019 was in a real mixed up place in my faith and views on origins. I posted a thread on the Logos forum looking for books on OEC and EC/TE views and was encouraged to read The Lost World of Adam and Eve by John Walton and How I Changed my Mind About Evolution edited by Jim Stump and Kathryn Applegate.
It was through the Stump and Applegate book that I learnt about BioLogos and then the forum. Crazy to think that was September 2019! For any who are interested you can read more about my story here.
I am so incredibly thankful for those books, BioLogos, and all the wonderful people I’ve met here. I love having the opportunity to give back to BioLogos as a forum moderator and getting to know the other moderators better. This forum is an incredible place.
That I don’t have to choose between mainstream science and a robust theological orthodoxy. But also that it is ok to live with biblical/theological/scientific tensions too. And that saying ‘I don’t know’ is not a cope out but an expression of biblical and intellectual humility.
I guess my reading of Francis Collins’ book “The Language of God” made me aware of BioLogos. I guess this is a tentative foray for me into the world of social media for a topic of interest to me - the interaction between Science and the Christian faith. I do not have a Facebook account, nor Twitter or TikTok or Instagram or anything else. Unless I find a good reason to participate in those platforms, I will not sign up (recognizing that many people use those platforms for good purposes). I generally prefer one-on-one discussions with trusted friends.
I have learned that it is possible to have deep discussions with new people, who have a desire to be intellectually honest, and treat others with respect. Kudos to the moderators of the BioLogos Forum for your part in keeping it that way. But it takes honesty and humility from all participants. I really appreciate the BioLogos Podcasts, hosted by @jstump and Colin Hoogerwerf. I thought the series “Uniquely Unique” was really excellent work.
I’m not sure I can put my finger on a specific humorous thing on the website, but several people add some humour to their postings, which I appreciate. I can read academic papers (and I do), but I like humour too. Humour is frowned upon in academic writing . (Although I know great scientists that slip humour into their writing, but maybe only the giants have that freedom).
Just went back to read your account again. I must say you lack any trace of condescending bully about you now. But I do get a sense that your gift for sarcasm must be on par with my own and @Mervin_Bitikofer’s. Of course I imagine that must be standard issue with the national culture of wit of the UK. While there I came across this by @Jay313 :
Philosophically, there is no requirement that God’s involvement “will and must be recognizable.” Simply put, for his own reasons God may have intentionally designed a system in which his involvement is ambiguous. Now, if you insist that God’s involvement must be evident, then the unbeliever would ask why God didn’t make that fact even more evident, such that it could not be missed. In short, clear proofs of God in nature would be destructive of faith, not beneficial. It requires no faith to believe in gravity. The evidence is “finely tuned” by God so that there is enough light for those who only wish to see, and enough darkness for those of the opposite disposition. (Pascal again. Sorry.)
I appreciate the light being kept on low as it leaves more for the imagination. I’ll give you there is something more and I think that it is wrestling with that which develops character. If you’re brought up with God as the name of the something more you’ll tic the box and carry on. But even without a convenient box to tic, the recognition of what is more is beneficial even without a ready backstory to render it as a fully articulated concept held in common by a community.
From my direction, the movement is from easy dismissal toward the faint recognition and to a gradually more articulated sense of what is more. For Christians I suspect the movement is from a well articulated, received image of what is more to an ever clearer recognition that the cultural image is more to help you relate than to imagine you have its full measure. The ideal is somewhere on that continuum.
I remember reading about the the website and forum when I read Dr. Collins book way back when, and looked at it but lost interest for a while, probably because life was busy and hectic for me. I then returned to the forum in January 2015 and after hanging around awhile, was asked to be a moderator. I see I have visited 2.7K days, and viewed 192K posts. Which is both impressive and sad.
What have I learned? Hopefully to be a little more patient and give a little more grace but am still a work in progress. I think what I have learned more recently is that I don’t have to have the last word and am fine with someone having the last poke as it does not threaten my security.
The most humorous thing? I love the humor thread, so thank you for that, Randy. it is usually where I first click when visiting the site. Especially if there are flags to deal with. But, also amusing is to see the different personalities on the site, not only to see how much we differ, but how much we are alike.
Hey at least you have the excuse that you have a job to do. I showed up in May of 2018, have visited 1.7 K days while viewing 3.3 K posts and I have neither a job nor the right tribal affiliation. If this is sad for you it is pathetic for me, or would be if I didn’t enjoy it and get something out of it.
I was debating evolution with people on all the forums I was on and was just getting beaten down left and right because I just didn’t have the knowledge. Somewhere along the way I found out about theistic evolution on Wikipedia and as a way to square all the beatdowns I was getting I kind of started to think that maybe I was on that track. I didn’t fully complete the switch until I heard Francis Collins on NPR one day and I remember saying to myself, “I believe in evolution,” and then a peace just came over me. I felt like God was saying, “It’s okay. Who cares? I don’t!” From then on, I became a Francis Collins fan and eventually a Biologos fan when I found it!
Google search initially, but the scientific outreach within the Christian community is what made me stay.
I have discovered that there is more nuance within the theistic view of evolution than I had expected. Evolutionary creationism and theistic evolution discussions aren’t as common as they once were, but I am glad that there is a healthy and varied discussion of how science and theology intersects.
“Every person who confuses causation and correlation ends up dying.” Quote from the humo(u)r thread.
. (Although I know great scientists that slip humour into their writing, but maybe only the giants have that freedom).