JPM,
“This couple themselves seem fairly conservative in their views and probably lean YEC but open to discussion. How do you provide resources and help without offending or alienating them in this area?”
One small step of engagement without bombardment might be to share some gentle literature - or a book - about someone’s journey; I suggested Frances Collins book on his journey. It’s a gentle read and allows people time and space to consider things. (One of many, small steps that are needed.)
Good thought. Personal testimony is highly regarded in church culture, and is a good way to start, perhaps beginning with my personal experience, which is not all that dramatic, but sometimes less drama is more.
What a friend we have in Jesus,
All our sins and griefs to bear:
What a privilege to carry
Everything to God in prayer.
O what peace we often forfeit,
O what needless pain we bear –
All because we do not carry
Everything to God in prayer.
A slight variation that I’ve begun saying to myself just this week as I go to sleep: What a rest we have in Jesus. I can let go and feel myself relax all over.
I feel very sorry for the boy. Is there anyway you could tell the parents and him about this twitch channel
Paleontologizing ?
It’s run by a dinosaur paleontologist and is family-friendly. Might as well feed his scientific curiosity [content removed by moderator].
Wow. Thank you for that statement. I believe that it is true.
Nice one–thanks! It sounds like Jonah, too.
Absolutely right. Unfortunately there are good reasons why some denominations are yec. To attempt to indoctrinate kids with secular science views can be catestrophic to religious belief. Despite what Catholics believe, as a large religion who are not YEC, for a number of evangelical denominations, YEC is vitally important for the way the gospel is preached. Take that away and the denominations core beliefs collaps theologically. Many theistic evolutionists simply do not understand how problematic their theology is and so don’t grasp this concept.
One issue is the sanctuary service, another is the 4th commndment (the Seventh Day Sabbath). There are other problems, e.g Noah’s flood and why it happened, and the relationship between sin and death, before sin there was no death. The gospel very clearly teaches salvation from sins and a physical resurrection from the grave for those who have died in Christ and the wicked being thrown into the lake of fire…difficult to reconcile properly any other way.
Good perspective. How would you approach a young person struggling with reconciling physical observations of the world with scriptural literalism?
I would teach both evolution and creationism (YEC). The reason for choosing one over the other comes down to theological belief and understanding…not science. Science cannot answer philosophical questions well…it cannot explain God or why God does what he does. Example, the incarnation and salvation, can that be explained scientifically? Can science show us why Jesus had to die for sin? can science explain what the priest was really doing theologically when he laid his hands on the scapegoat at the end of the Day of Atonement Service? Can science explain God speaking every element of his creation into existence?
I agree with those who’ve advised pointing to the diversity of viewpoints among Christians. As kids start to (hopefully) start seeing more nuance and gray areas in the world, already knowing that there are multiple viewpoints (held by local Christians and/or people they trust), that can help them avoid accepting the idea that hardline YEC is the only “biblical” view.
This makes me wonder what went on behind the scenes in my own childhood. I remember going to the London Museum of Natural History when I was about 9 and getting really excited about dinosaurs because I didn’t know much about them before. I had a little triceratops toy that I’d play with a lot. I’m not sure whether I experienced any “conflict” about my faith and dinosaurs, but I do know that my family acquired Kent Hovind seminar VHS tapes shortly after that, and I was soon quite convinced that there was a “conflict” and most people had been brainwashed about it (oh the irony). I’m not sure what would have prevented that, but all it takes is one example that doesn’t fit the mold to begin raising questions about the mold.
Ain’t that the truth. And kids nowadays have tools their parents and grandparents never had – Google, Siri, and every website on the internet. If they truly want alternative views, they’ll find them. That’s probably why so many hardline YEC organizations work harder at preempting questions by providing all-encompassing “answers,” in a sense communicating that curiosity is no longer necessary about certain subjects.
Our church used to use that too… I wasn’t happy about it, but didn’t really know what to do. Fortunately they don’t use it anymore, and my kids were pretty young so I’m not sure they remember it.
And what, pray tell, should we say to young people who have learned that this is simply not true?
To young people who have learned that they have to take evolution seriously for reasons that have nothing whatsoever to do with either theological belief and understanding or lack of it? To young people who have learned that the YEC organisations have been misrepresenting scientific theories, methods and evidence to them? To young people who have learned that scientists do not make the assumptions that YEC organisations claim that they make, and that the assumptions that they do make are not as untestable as they’d been led to believe?
This is the issue at stake, Adam. This is the reason why young people struggle with their faith when they learn about millions of years and evolution. It is a matter of trust. Regardless of how important you believe the age of the earth or evolution to be theologically, attempting to support your views with claims that are untrue or misleading is a breach of trust. Especially if you are in a position of leadership within your church, whether as a pastor, or a youth minister, or a small group leader, or even as a parent. If you have been found to be teaching falsehood and misinformation about one thing, how can you be trusted to be telling the truth about anything?
So I put this question to you: how should we counsel young Christians who are responding to YECism by asking the question, “What else are they lying to me about?”
I got my kids a toy ark too, but it was Playmobil, not “vintage.” I grew up being told that Noah’s ark was shaped more like a shoebox than a bathtub, so letting my kids play with that was a small step in a more accepting direction. 
Just to be clear my previous response was solely to young kids whose parents are opposed to science. If I was in a position of authority in a church to teach genesis , even to kids, I would 100% teach that it’s mythology, not literal. For my nieces and nephew and second cousins I point out how stupid YECism is. They are very aware they YECism means an inability to properly understand scientific literature. I don’t pretend with them that YECism even makes a tiny tiny bit of sense. When someone comes to being an older teen, I don’t care what their parents think. If a 16 year old asks me about evolution I’m going to tell them. Even if their parents don’t agree. I believe kids in high school are mature enough to be able to hear the data and that it can greatly affect their life at that age.
Yes, you are right.
Here you get to the heart of the problem with YEC and doctrine:
This is the key, isn’t it?
The theology many of us hold or have held seems to be in direct conflict with what has been learned and continues to be learned about the universe.
And this:
You state it so precisely.
What is right? How to handle this truth?
Do we die, trying to defend YEC, which is demonstrably false, in order to support our theology? Who outside our enclaves will believe such a testimony or message?
Do we seek to understand reality as God allows us to discover more of it, and trust Him to help us wrangle with these things? Support each other in the struggling? Try to understand a theology that includes reality?
Do we give up? It seems actually, people are giving up, especially the ones who have come from YEC and finally realize it’s not reconcilable with reality, and therefore cannot support their faith. And those outside see our mess, and just shake their heads; for good reason, they want nothing to do with it.
Something else?
No. Science cannot answer philosophical questions. Full Stop. People may try to use science to answer philosophical questions but that is not the fault of science. So all of your follow-up questions are really meaningless.
Get them into a church with a minister who has been adequately educated in theology! A large number of denominations have ministers with really poor theological knowledge and even worse doctrine. I think these are the groups who produce absurd answers to scientific claims…usually answers that simply reject all science without even attempting to reconcile the differences.
There is no such thing as hardline YEC BTW. That is simply a construct of individuals who think that evolution explains our existence. For example, I have an aunty who is catholic, a denomination that among my theological position is not known for encouraging its members to think freely, and you know what she taught her kids…we came down out of the trees! Its this kind of stupidity that one who is a Christian should really look closely at.
I think that its silly to claim that AIG is a hardline YEC group. They fully accept the fossil record and the idea that Dinosaurs were created by God. Hardline groups deny that God even created dinosaurs, rather that they came into existence as a result of a sinful breeding program by early mankind. Some may scoff at this, however, considering that generally its believed from a theological position that “men of old” were far more intelligent and lived a lot longer than we do, it should be too surprising really despite the fact that God mentions them in the book of Job …Behemoth and Leviathan. In fact an entire chapter of Job 41 is dedicated to the Leviathan, I’m trying to think of a single place anywhere else in the bible where an entire chapter is dedicated to one animal of creation?
Personally, I do not see any importance in the finer details of such things, it has nothing to do with salvation. I would challenge anyone on this forum to show me where in the gospel our salvation is dependant on understanding science, however, i can very conclusively show that our salvation is dependant on our theology.
The beauty of the biblical statements about the gospel is that Christ and his apostles explained quite clearly that we are judged by the fruits of our faith. Those fruits have nothing to do with science and they do not condemn those with less ability…Christ simply said, do unto others as you would have them do unto you. Heal the sick, feed and clothe the poor, be tolerant of and even love those who persecute you for his names sake, be kind…these are the sorts of things that are Godly. None of those things require any doctrine founded by science. The reason the bible teaches so little about science should be obvious, however, to many on these forums it is viewed as some kind of learning limitation of our creator. After reading the book of Job, I wonder how such individuals could be considered Christian to be honest.
If you hold that the earth is six thousand years old, you do have the produce absurd answers to scientific claims. That is your only option, which is what produces the clash when kids growing up under YEC teaching encounter the real world.
“Let your conversation be always full of grace, seasoned with salt, so that you may know how to answer everyone.” -Colossians 4:6
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