How (not?) to speak to scientists about Jesus

[jammycakes (James McKay)]

@adamjedgar

I get that Jammycakes, however, as my Joy Kuhl illustration clearly proves, what you claim is incorrect. You are attempting to make the claim of rules and principles however that is not the issue here (only you make that an issue, i do not).

The issue here is simply a matter of interpretation.

No Adam, you don’t get it.

The reason why I make the rules an issue is because the rules in question are the rules of accurate and honest measurement. They are rules for which knowingly or wilfully disregarding them is lying. To say that you do not make them an issue is to say that you consider it acceptable to tell lies.

That is why it is not “simply a matter of interpretation” as you claim. Interpretations of scientific evidence MUST be mathematically coherent and they MUST respect the basic principles of measurement. Interpretations that do not do so are not just differences of opinion; they are lies.

@adamjedgar

…it is not so simple as 1+1 =2 (despite your claims to that effect). For example, we once believed that the foundation principle of all science was the theory of relatively. Trouble was, that theory denied atheism…now a new theory has. been proposed…the theory of relatively does not applied to the time immediately before the big bang…

And can we get one thing straight here please. I am not trying to make a case for atheism. I am simply making the case for honest reporting and honest interpretation of accurate information. Nothing more, nothing less.

@adamjedgar

• If Moses writings are an allegory and given all of the above, how do you explain Exodus 20: 11For in six days the LORD made the heavens and the earth and the sea and all that is in them, but on the seventh day He rested. Therefore the LORD blessed the Sabbath day and set it apart as holy.
• How do you reconcile the idea that whenever a New Testament writer makes reference to Mosaic writings, it has to be immediately discredited as coming from an individual with zero scientific knowledge, given that said individual was inspired by God to write in the first place? Are you honestly able to rationalise that an omnipotent, all powerful, everlasting God made a mistake or told the apostle a porky?
• How do you rationalise that Christ himself made a number of references back to the 10 commandments…the very same literal tablets of stone where the Mosaic law was first written down?

I addressed these questions here.

These are discussions that are worth happening, but I think it would be better to spin up a separate thread if you want to discuss them, because it’s veering off topic for this thread, which is about how to talk to scientists, and scientifically literate people in general, about Jesus.

That’s why you need to respect the rules of science, Adam. Scientists are people who have spent many years studying the rules in great detail. Their understanding of the rules comes, as I said, from hands-on experience in real-world situations where failing to apply them correctly stops things from working. It is this hands-on experience, and not any kind of philosophical commitment, that tells them that they are not at liberty to disregard the rules just because they result in findings that they don’t like or find philosophically inconvenient. It is because of this hands-on experience that they treat the rules as non-negotiable, will not take you seriously if you disregard them, and will view you as some sort of cult if you start responding to their insistence that the rules be followed with any kind of false accusations of being philosophically motivated, fudging, or making things up.

Remember this: your job as a witness for Christ is to persuade people. You will not persuade people by shouting or preaching at them, especially not if what you are preaching or shouting is laden with misinformation, accusations, willful ignorance or contempt towards the subjects that they have had to master in order to do their jobs. You will only persuade them by demonstrating that you take them seriously, and that you are committed to making sure that your facts are straight.