Do I think the “parable” of the rich man ever happened? Is that a trick question? It’s a parable.
Again, there is no fictional alternation. It’s an allegory. And each ‘day’ constitutes an evening and a morning in real terms.
How exactly do you know it is a parable?
Luke 16:1 And he said also unto his disciples, There was a certain rich man, which had a steward; and the same was accused unto him that he had wasted his goods. [Story continues 8 more verses]
Luke 16:9 to 13 (Summation by Jesus)
And I say unto you, Make to yourselves friends of the mammon of unrighteousness; that, when ye fail, they may receive you into everlasting habitations. … No servant can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon.
[Reaction of the Pharisees]
Luk 16:14
And the Pharisees also, who were covetous, heard all these things: and they derided him.
Jesus reacts to the Pharisees - - Luke 16:15-18
And he said unto them, Ye are they which justify yourselves before men; but God knoweth your hearts: for that which is highly esteemed among men is abomination in the sight of God…And it is easier for heaven and earth to pass, than one tittle of the law to fail…Whosoever putteth away his wife, and marrieth another, committeth adultery: and whosoever marrieth her that is put away from her husband committeth adultery.
New Story - Luke 16:19
There was a certain rich man, which was clothed in purple and fine linen, and fared sumptuously every day:
Luke 16:20-24
And there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, which was laid at his gate, full of sores. . . . . . .
Luke 16:25 to 30
But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented…And he said, Nay, father Abraham: but if one went unto them from the dead, they will repent.
Luke 16:31
And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.
[End of Chapter 16]
Beginning of new Chapter - Luke 17:1
Then said he unto the disciples, It is impossible but that offences will come: but woe unto him, through whom they come!
Luke 17:2
It were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and he cast into the sea, than that he should offend one of these little ones.
etc. etc.
You make the assumption that this 16 ends with a parable. Are you saying that such a conversation between Abraham and the Rich Man was not possible?
I’ll make it simpler for you. If it’s a parable, it didn’t happen for obvious reasons. If it isn’t a parable, then I do think it happened.
You have no way to prove that it is a parable. There are obvious flags in the text that tell us when Jesus is making a parable.
Why would Jesus put the “historical Abraham” into the narrative if it was supposed to be a fiction?
I don’t think a “non-fiction/fiction” binary is helpful when approaching Genesis. Parables are an identifiable genre, and Genesis 1 isn’t a parable.
I don’t know how you can be sure that parts of Genesis 1 are not, in essence, a parable. There are plenty of thoughtful Christians who think Creation in Genesis is emulating the concept parallel to Solomon’s Temple.
If a biblical text is not a parable … do you have another category of literature other than “description of literal events” ?
All I’m saying is that Luke 16 may very well have a narrative that is mistakenly interpreted as a parable.
Yes. Origin story.
Parables are short stories whose purpose is teaching a moral lesson via comparison or analogy.
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Personally, I reject the “literal/non-literal” categories as a misguided way to approach literature, period. There is no such thing as “literal literature” or “non-literal literature.”
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I can understand why you would prefer to avoid the “binary” nature of these categories.
But if Young Earth Creationists are going to say “if it isn’t a parable, then it’s history” binary model, it is up to us to come up with credible categories of Biblical literature that allow for some history and/or some parables.
I’ll keep my eyes open to something along these lines in the journals… and I’ll report back if I find anything useful.
No evidence? This is surely incorrect, but it doesn’t matter. If it’s a parable, it didn’t happen. If it is, it did happen. Pretty simple.
Ummmm. Non-fiction and fiction are fairly standard distinctions, though some genres (and authors) may blur the lines.
Why? If their paradigm is ridiculous, why are we supposed to humor it by arbitrarily inventing special genres or torturing categories that already exist?
Literal and non-literal refer to meaning, not factuality or fiction/non-fiction distinctions. “My pastor is a wonderful shepherd of his flock” conveys non-literal meaning (he owns no sheep, I’m talking about a congregation), but the statement is not somehow fiction because it relies on non-literal meaning.
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All I’m saying is that you’re exaggerating to make your point. “Literature” is a big target, and there are very many things that we read for informational purposes only.
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