It’s like quantum mechanics. Anyone who thinks they do, doesn’t. Really, really doesn’t. Below zero.
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The unmistakable reality of consciousness and not experiencing some branching effect was a thought when the theory was first presented to me. The other thing I figured, with respect to the mathematics in support of it, is that the math works the same irregardless of the direction the video is played.
And without objects there is no space?
You don’t need to instruct me on the creeds or church councils, as we studied them in our church theology classes.
All disciplines develop specialized vocabulary for the concepts they study. It doesn’t matter when the word “Trinity” was first used. People were talking about the nature of God before that word was used. Just as people talked about the nature of Christ before they had the word Christology. We also have the terms “patriology” (study of God the father), “pneumatology” (study of the Holy Spirit), and “patristics” (study of the church fathers). And so forth.
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@mitchellmckain: You seem not to have replied to this above: How does the trinity work? - #58 by Dale
I can see how my question got lost in the shuffle, but you raised a compelling issue here, and I’m very interested to see if this also means there is no space, if there are no objects.
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Space is also an ordering of events. Space and time are interconnected.
We certainly don’t know of any space without objects. All space is filled with virtual particles.
Space and time are measures but there is nothing to measure without events.
Virtual particles are fascinating. It’s as if one can occur and have a miraculous effect at any moment.
I understand space always appears to contain something, as if nature abhors a vacuum, and in peering beyond the quarks, what else will then show itself to be there.
If space is nothing, then it would still be infinitely divisible.
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There is no space where particles cannot appear, but there is still space to encompass them.
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Is the distance between two static objects necessarily eventful?
Only slower than light objects see space.
Being slower than light is what makes physical vision possible.
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That’s True! grin.
I was thinking at the speed of light, space and time fully collapse. There is no space to see, and we’re out of time.
Here is a visualization I recently posted if you didn’t see it Mike.
From the particles frame of reference it happens instantaneously, from our frame, it takes a certain amount of time to travel a particular distance.
An object in a suspended state of animation, is still subject to time. Right?
Only in our time reference is the object suspended through time.
In my write-up, I describe how one second for one person is seen as two seconds for another. Both exist through all timescales, the difference is the amount of time perceived.
You were getting there. grin
So why do we even have the doctrine of the Trinity? It seems to be more trouble than it’s worth. But it’s an important doctrine. Christians adopted monotheism from their Jewish heritage. Yet they clearly saw that both Jesus and the Holy Spirit were also divine. And so we have the doctrine of the Trinity to explain this seeming paradox.
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Kind of like the diameter of the singularity in a black hole, a region of space, where space does not exist.
For me, it doesn’t matter either way, it’s like proving that atheism is not true, but solipsism is still a possibility.
The question is how do you tell the difference between the presence of God and your mind playing tricks on you, between a miracle of divine intervention and the coincidences of an unconscious intentionality.
Along these lines of what solipsism would be like, is where the beauty… the glory of the triune being shines forth its brilliant light, in that God did not have to suffer being alone, but became that in the person of Jesus.
I see the crux of your question; is there any good outside of God? Where do we draw the line and say that good is not of God? Is it a trick of the mind or a decision of who He is?
I also see the idea of only knowing God through reason. Is He not also spirit? Our mind reasons, it is our spirit that compels us. He promises to put His spirit in us, love, kindness, mercy… a change we are unable or unwilling to do ourselves. Keeping His promise and seeing the change in us comes by recognition, not concussion. This is also how we know. Witness.
Similarly, we use recognition, not reason to find a queen of hearts in a deck of cards. Reason will slow us down, “Look, a red queen, and she’s rich”.
Experience and test results beat theory every time. Reasoning is only one tool and not always the best one for a job.
What are ya tryin’ ta do, talk about the OP?
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When I thought I could know God through a philosophical argument or pure reason, I experienced the possibility of solipsism. And how unreal people seem in their sinfulness, only adds weight to the suspicion.
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