How does the Tree of Life fit in EC

I see that one of the most discussed threads on this forum is how to reconcile the seemingly random/chance nature of evolution (which produced humans from a line of primate ancestors) with the Christian belief that God creates with a purpose–especially in the case of humankind which has the potential of becoming His children. Obviously you have given this a great deal of thought, and your posts seem to accept the most important features of Christian dogma. And yet, in my view, there are needless inconsistencies and gaps in your arguments, some of which I will now address:

For Adam (early humans) to be inspired with an idea, evolution had to have already prepared their brains to operate as Minds; i.e. intelligently. From our current knowledge, this is a very rare occurrence in our Universe. We need to ask: "What is there about (Darwinian) evolution that we are not yet taking into account that would allow for this?

In the earlier quote you state that “God played a role” in evolutionary creation, but now you state that it is “anything but” directed and controlled. Furthermore, now you see it is also “blind and stupid” and subject to ‘catastrophic failures’.

@Relates and I differ somewhat on how to interpret the mechanisms involved in Darwinian evolution, but I cannot but wonder how he sees your views. @AntoineSuarez might like to chip in too.

Incorrect. We have no such knowledge about the rarity of intelligence and no such things are simply correct by default. Just because people can assume whatever is convenient for they are pushing doesn’t mean anything of substance.

A sufficient answer to guesses about the rarity of intelligence in the universe is just the vast size of the universe.

God having a role in evolution does not equal evolution being directed and controlled. What I described is how all learning processes work – and evolution is not different. We learn from failures. And that is how natural selection works… the failures do not survive. This being a demonstrable fact shows quite clearly that the role God has in evolution cannot be one of directing and controlling.

Yes it is blind and stupid to begin with and then it learns from its catastrophic failures to do things in a better way. But that doesn’t help the extinct species or the toddlers sticking forks into electric sockets.

Hello!

To answer your questions (in my opinion)

  1. I think the Tree of Life doesn’t have a “place” in the evolutionary interpretation of Genesis. Rather, it is a symbol/allegory for Salvation and the Eternal Life that is the ultimate end goal of humanity (as Christians see it.)

  2. I don’t think God was “afraid” of Adam being immortal. Arguably, yes God could have prevented that, and he does by expelling Adam from the Garden. We know that according to Scripture, God is omnipotent, omnipresent and yes, he would be able to prevent one human from eating from a tree. But, part of our humanity, what makes us “in the image of God” and what sets us apart from the rest of creation, is our innate ability to make conscious choices. God gives us free-will, the concept of being able to make our own decisions which ultimately lead us to estrangement from Him. He allows us to make choices and He respects those choices.

  3. I also don’t think God created us to by physically immortal. The world wouldn’t work if we were, if no one dies and we were to be constantly multiplying as the Bible commands, eventually we’d run out of space and resources, wouldn’t we? I think the “death” spoken about in Genesis is estrangement from God, a more “spiritual” death that accompanies evil and human-caused calamities as well as hopelessness and meaningless (which is conquered by the Resurrection of Jesus). God gives everyone a chance to “exist”, people die, new ones are born, everyone has a chance to experience the wonder and joy of “existing”, creation can progress. Now, you might question the origin and existence of “natural evil”, because it’s easy to justify human caused evil, like murder, rape, poverty, etc. But how do we justify “natural evil”, like disease, and animals eating other animals, and natural catastrophe? Aren’t these required to progress natural selection and achieve the humanity we have today? Yes. We can’t claim to know the divine will of the most omnipotent God, who’s purpose and will is too wonderful and mysterious for us to comprehend. But, I think, it’s possible, that God just thought that was the best, most efficient way to guide evolution. The food chain is an amazing cycle that is rich in complexity and is cyclical, with all aspects of creation mutually benefitting: apex predators eat secondary predators, which then eat herbivores, which eat plants, which are producers through photosynthesis, and when predators and herbivores die, they contribute to the growth of new plants and fungi through their decomposition. How perfect, how delicately intricate and beautiful is this immense chain of life that our Creator allowed to unfold, so that we could exist. It is an efficient and endless cycle that does not cease and demonstrates the complexity and necessity for death. We, as humans, can come to terms with that cycle if we trust in God’s plan and in the resurrection. As humans, also, we seem to have taken upon ourselves to disrupt what God created so perfectly for us, by damaging the world which He gave us.

  4. Imagine that you are a judge, and you get robbed by a thief. You, being the kind and good person you are, forgive him on a personal level, you interact with him, and come to have affection for him, and understand why he did what he did. Now, you are also the judge at his trial. While you have forgiven him and care for him on a personal scale, you are also a just judge, and understand that there’s just got to be some punishment here, Yes, that is what God plans of us, but it goes back to the idea of free will, it wasn’t in God’s plan for Adam to just “regain” salvation, that wouldn’t be fair and as a just God he couldn’t allow that to happen. There needed to be punishment for the fall of man (even if it wasn’t in the form of the literal narrative found in Genesis), there had to be retribution, and justice done for the rebellion of man against God, who revealed to us in the form of our consciousness and moral law what was right and wrong, and that justice comes in the form of Christ, who offers himself as our Holy defender and acceptor of retribution, who accepts the pay for our sins, so that we may be free of our estrangement from God. Amen!

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I do not think that Genesis makes any evolutionary claims as we accept evolution today. What is the reason for God to force a disconnect with humanity as part of an going process, just when humans “arrived”?

Hmm, perhaps something like this?

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