I don’t expect you will find one, either. : )
Then you believe wrong. There is nothing of the kind in the Bible.
John 2 On the third day there was a marriage at Cana in Galilee, and the mother of Jesus was there; 2 Jesus also was invited to the marriage, with his disciples. 3 When the wine gave out, the mother of Jesus said to him, “They have no wine.” 4 And Jesus said to her, “O woman, what have you to do with me? My hour has not yet come.” 5 His mother said to the servants, “Do whatever he tells you.” 6 Now six stone jars were standing there, for the Jewish rites of purification, each holding twenty or thirty gallons. 7 Jesus said to them, “Fill the jars with water.” And they filled them up to the brim. 8 He said to them, “Now draw some out, and take it to the steward of the feast.” So they took it. 9 When the steward of the feast tasted the water now become wine, and did not know where it came from (though the servants who had drawn the water knew), the steward of the feast called the bridegroom 10 and said to him, “Every man serves the good wine first; and when men have drunk freely, then the poor wine; but you have kept the good wine until now.” 11 This, the first of his signs, Jesus did at Cana in Galilee, and manifested his glory; and his disciples believed in him.
Nowhere in the story does it say that Jesus turned water into wine. All it says is that after having drunk all the wine they already had and then they tasted this water from the wine barrels and thought it was better wine than what they had before. And the water probably did taste like wine and also had wine in it since it came from wine barrels which are rarely completely emptied of wine not to mention filled with all sorts of sediment from the wine.
What about verse 9 where it says the steward tasted the water now become wine? Still doesn’t say Jesus changed the water into wine. That could mean anything… like the steward tasted the water which He thought was wine.
You are looking for a scientific explanation for WHAT? You don’t even begin to look for a scientific explanation until you have the facts. We don’t have any facts. Whenever police look for witnesses what is one of the first things they ask? Have you been drinking? Why? Because if they had then they are NOT reliable witnesses to anything.
I certainly would expect a scientific explanation IF we DID have all the facts.
Oh… and what did this have to do with the topic? Differentiating between parts of the Bible meant to be literal and those meant to be metaphorical. Well I think this one is 100% literal. They literally thought the water tasted like wine. LOL
You really are pushing the boat out here. All implications within the text would indicate that there was actual wine. Just because you think it is physically impossible?
Richard
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My goodness, these people must have been so stupid and easy to fool! That goes for the author of St. John’s gospel also. No wonder they believed in the resurrection.
Yes alcohol definitely makes people stupid. …or worse.
And Jesus himself was instrumental in deceiving them. This was supposed to be his first miracle. Turns out he was a con man.
No doubt, according to you, magicians are con men and storytellers are liars. But what Jesus did in that story doesn’t even come close to MY definition of a con man.
I do not worship necromancers and wizards. God and Jesus are neither. Jesus certainly made it perfectly clear that He never did anything that any human being couldn’t do.
God broke his own laws? … no integrity at all? Might as well make Him a liar too and say he arranged all the evidence to make fools of all the scientists. While you are at it, why not add murder and genocide with total callous disregard for life who smashes any people He made for any defect whatsoever.
…sounds more like the devil to me, frankly. But I guess I am picky about the sort of being I am willing to worship.
Yeah when you make it sound like a comic book or Walt Disney cartoon and then claim this is the guide for our lives then yes it sounds pretty stupid. “Hey doctor, it hurts when I hit my head like this.” Doctor: “Maybe you shouldn’t hit your head like that.”
There is a caveat here. We can do anything He did with the Holy Spirit. But as that tends to have supernatural properties I guess you don’t believe in that either. Shame, it is actually very helpful, especially if I get out of my depth. Which happens more often than I would like to admit.
RIchard
Wow, honestly never looked at the story like that before, its definitely an eye opener.
So, this is one thing that has had me confused and is also a bit of topic. The definitions i found between the two are:
“Basically, magic and miracles differ in their source: magic has either a human or demonic source, but miracles are a supernatural work of God.”
The thing i wonder is jesus is the son of God, but he also walked the earth as a human, so does that mean because he is the son of God that it overides such acts and they are thus miracles?
Jesus cornered the master of the ceremony who had the authority to address the guests and he praised the groom for not cutting the wine after they had freely drunk, to pretend wealth, and give them cheap wine when thy had lost their pallet / been drunk already. Now some people could of course interpret the comment of the master of ceremony as a complaint that the groom has so far served them the cheap wine, but that would imply the master of ceremony having failed his duty to reject that wine. If however th groom had enough money to buy plenty of wine that praise would be fake as it would imply him to be wealthy thus not needing to do so and the master of ceremony would imply a fake reality supported by Jesus. .
The hand chisseled stone jars used to hold this sacred water were used especially for that purpose to prevent fouling, as only stone jars did. Clay could not be used for that due to its porosity and glazing was not yet invented. To fill them with a fermented drink - as wine was known to be to those primitive goat herders - would have spoilt those sacred jars. So no, the water served would have been blissfully pure and tasted accordingly without any taste as pure as pure can get.
I wish you to experience to drink from one of those sacred wells as you will never forget that and always stay thirsty for that taste, as I do.
I actually read verse 9 as “the water that was born to be wine” or “had come to be wine” which implies it to be a placeholder for the wine, and to me the ability to recognise that the value of that cleansing water makes it the best wine I can ever get is probably in recognition of my need of repentance. Clearly is someone finds a fine wine more valuable and chooses to read the text in that way - feel free to do so. It just implies that one sees the value in ones God in generating a fake reality according to ones wishful thinking, and perhaps I wish for a different God, but then it is our wishes that characterise us 
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Hmm, When Moses turned his staff into a snake and the Egyptian magicians did the same. One was true and the other was magic, and because Moses’s snake ate the other two it proved that God’s version was the right one…
Yes, I heard that. Doesn’t make it right, but I have heard that.
Very dodgy theology.
MIracles are not there to be debunked or explained. They serve a purpose. They proclaim God’s sovereignty over His creation. It doesn’t matter whether we can explain them now, What matters is the reaction of the viewers at the time. A radio would be magic to someone who did not know how it worked.
It seems that people are more concerned with the actions than the meaning or results of them. The Bible is still about theology, not science, or even infallible factual history.
Richard
healing is to create mind-body harmony, not to give you the body you wish for. Healing may also be the process to allow you to find peace with God when you leave this world.
If healing would be to give you the body you wish for than those who transition should be happy, The 20fold higher suicide rate of transitioned people in a study from Sweden suggests otherwise. Look at Nick Vujicic and tell me if he is healed supernaturally or if he is in need of healing.
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The point of miracles is to point at God. They show a supernatural e.g. not material causality of events, not an abnormal cause of events.
Life is the ability to move energy or matter at will. This is how you make wine, not by accident of by breaking the God given laws of physics but by using them. you have authority over the physical elements yourself, as you can lift a stone of split an atom. If you admire a God for doing abnormal things are at risk to admire an abnormal God. I admire a God that put laws upon reality to make it obey his order. If he would have to break the laws he willed into existence he would not be omnipotent to me but impotent as he can not follow his own will. We have plenty of those folks here on earth, we don’t need them in heaven
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Never really thought about it, but the Cana water to wine story is sort of recapitulated at the Last Supper, when Jesus speaks of wine being his blood, with his blood being the means of purification. And it speaks to me that I think of it not being wine turned to blood, but rather his blood became the wine that we may freely partake of.
So, whether literal or not, it is metaphorical.
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That sounds right to me.
My position is certainly not that I know what happened. Clearly I do not. The point is that there are many possible explanations other than abra-cadabra. So… I keep giving your alternative suggestions a thumbs up.
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Agreed. The story definitely seems to imply that there was a few empty jars. Definitely not jars filled to the top with the best wine. Maybe some wine. Who knows. But what Jesus gave them was not watered down wine but their best wine saved for last. So the only logical conclusion from the story is water turned into wine. Knowing that combined with communion representing his blood with wine it’s hyperlinking back to the miracles of Moses when he turned the water into blood/ or something like blood.
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Do you realize that your interpretation of this story is exactly the kind of thing people say to discredit Christianity?
The miracle at the wedding in Cana is eucharistic, the first miracle in Jesus’s public ministry. John tells us that the water had become wine.
John 2:11 says, What Jesus did here in Cana of Galilee was the first of the signs through which he revealed his glory; and his disciples believed in him.
So what did Jesus do? How did it reveal his glory?
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