Where are these abolitionist teaching in the Bible? People also used the Bible to justify slavery. At least we can infer the Trinity from the Bible.
I’m pretty sure it’s talked about a bit here.
One thing to remember is if the Bible did not direct people towards anti slavery why did the slave owners feel the need to create a slave bible that edited out a lot of the Bible.
Jude3 project in general digs into it. I don’t have the time now. Down the road I’ll make some individual threads with more links to blogs, articles, and podcasts though that touches on a lot of these subjects.
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has anyone here lived under military occupation and wondered how the young girls got pregnant there? Surely if your fiancée told you she became pregnant by magic you and your pals would go out for a pint. The whole village would join in with their wishful thinking and celebrate the a-list celebrity in their midst. After all, they all expected it to happen after years of propaganda, so it would have been quite a common excuse and there would have been a lot of single mothers running around. claiming magic pregnancies and living on state benefits.
The way the narrative is presented allows you to cope with the story as a child and stay enchanted about it, but once you grow up about the facts of life you can accept it and see it for its glorification of the Lord. Tell me if there is a rape case resulting in pregnancy, which life is guaranteed to be innocent - and why?
The article Rape victims' babies pay the price of war | World news | The Guardian gives you some insight into the problem. Tell me how you would treat your promised wife, the one that you had not romantically chosen but that was given to you and if you would manage to love her and in particular that child like thyself - and if not, why not?
I am sorry ut this is not about rape as such. It could, and probably has been argued that God actually raped Mary, although scripture implies it was consential…
“The spirit of the Lord will come upon you” would imply that she had little or no choice, except that was describing the way not the motivation or circumstance. Mary readily agrees, there is no coercion as such. (Her agreement is part of Catholocism)
However, the importance for Scripture is the presence of God in Jesus. God cannot claim fatherhood if He had no part in th conception. John and Mark do not even mention it, but Mark concentrates on the week running up to Easter, and John is more concerned with theology. "In the beginning was the word… the word became flesh and dwelt among us" is his nod to the conception of Jesus.
It is not sufficient to gloss over this. Like I said before it is rooted n Christianity as a whole which is why it was brought into the creeds rather than a random addition to saitsfy a denomnation or two.
Richard
It is clear that slaver was an accepted part of life when the New Testament was written.Paul encourages fairness and acceptance rather than rebellion or removal. He even uses slaver as a model for accepting the authority of God, and/or living under the influence of evil.
In the Old Testament the taking of a conquored people as slaves was an accepted practice. Jewish Law includes the release pf slaves every 7 years in the Jubilee.
Slavery was abolished under compassionate and equality grounds. You can use the Bible to prove anything so I would be skeptical of any proof from Biblical texts to back up the abolition of slavery.
Richard
This is the beauty of the bible, it is a mirror of its reader. By leaving things out or matter to interpretation it reveals your God that you as a reader fill in. It was one of those concepts of an image of God that was not a physical image as in so many other religions, but an imaginary one that lives in the book, a God that comes alive inside you when you think about him.
So what makes Jesus divine in your eyes. Is he more divine because he was created in an act of magic that goes against logic? it is that what you read into the bible that declares your value scale. Was the reason for his existence God doing magic or the consequence of humans living his word welcoming this child? Would God taking on human form in the body of a child that was created in an act of hate and oppression, thus the lowest of the low by some human standards, not be good enough? Would he, who created creation, have to show that it is not good enough for him? IMHO the reason that Jesus is born of sin is not that he was created by an abnormal process but that he did not come alive to glorify his biological father but God as his father would have wanted him and his mother killed to destroy their society and subjugate them to the worldly power of Rome. His heavenly father wanted him to break the spell of earthly power. In doing so he converted an act of evil into a sign of his glory by turning hate and oppression into love and hope. This way Jesus overcame the world in his birth as well as in his death.
You can take the “judge not or be judged” assertion to extremes if you like but I do not see my assertion of the established creed and beliefs to be covered by it.
I an not “judging” an aethiest, or even a “heretic”, just pointing out a criteria for their existence.
I think this will/would take more than a few lines each way to thrash out.
has always been that instead of man either searching for or making heimself acceptable to, God, which is how most religions are based. In Christianity God makes the first move and offers a solution that is not based on any perfection or ritual behaviour. Any behaviour modification is due to the faith, not the cause or cement to make it in the first place.
God offers forgiveness (which is where the salvation concept comes from) and it is not reliant on any goodness or good behaviour, just an acceptance.
And I like not having to wear a straightjacket or even a monk’s habbit.
Richard
How canyou not take the culture of the writer and thier audience into account? That is almost 100% of the arguments against Genesis 1. If the Bible talked about millennia The earth going around the Sun and Evolution no one would have understood it let alone believed a word of it. The knowledge was just not there.
Richard
In the birth of Jesus his word became flesh. On this word “to love thy neighbour like thyself” hang all the law and the prophets. And it is not “like yourself” as in “like oneself” as narcissism isn’t a biblical concept , but “like ones own”, e.g. third person self. In that way “the spirit of the Lord coming upon you” makes sense, as much as the spirit coming upon Joseph to make him accept this child.
It is perhaps the biggest problem between rational and irrational theology that the latter implies a God that has to break the laws of nature to show his power. To me a God that needs to do that is not good enough and is the core problem of the incompatibility between religion and science. It is not a God of the gap problem, but a God of the exception to the natural problem. In that I do not refere to the natural as in physical, but natural as in normal of logical. My God is a logician, not a magician that is into “make belief” reality.
Sorry, I have to go and lead worship, I will return when time allows
Richard
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Okay, @Trippy_Elixir, here is a start. (Let the censors rev their engines.)
Here are two books I would recommend, although they include more theology than I think might be what you’re looking for. As reference books, you can of course, refer to the sections that help answer whatever question you have at the moment, though. If you can find a library to borrow them from (or interlibrary loan them from) you can definitely try before you buy.
Additionally, books like these contain bibliographies that are very valuable. Do not overlook them. They will direct you to scholarly resources I don’t know about.
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But it absolutely implies Bible reading and understanding is sufficient,. And your reading and understanding is the same as anyone else’s reading and understanding of it. In other words, interpretation is not infallible and will vary.
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Since Jesus did not provide a reliable method of correct and accurate interpretation, he’s responsible too.
Would I leave my potential spouse just because of that happening? No.
So I listened several possibilities which included this one. It would still require more than just the possibility of this being the outcome in order for it to be true.
Just check out the same references I gave her and work from there. There is literally dozens of things on this subject from just those sources. It was her point she was trying to use to support her belief of the Trinity.
why did God lead the Jews out of slavery than if it was an accepted part of life?
The 7 year release scheme was only for Jewish slaves.
I can and have done so frequently. On the other hand… Is the Bible only a message for people two thousand years ago. Do the changes in language and culture make the Bible irrelevant to us today. Does believing in the Bible mean we have to become a first century Jew or turn world back into that of ancient Europe? If so the Bible belongs in the garbage not on my table in front of me. So I dispute with notion that experts on ancient culture or linguistic studies are needed as a mediator between God and man. There is only one mediator and that is God Himself in the person of Jesus.
Yep. The very meaning of the words like “earth,” “sky,” and “universe” have changed. I definitely think it is a good idea to take this into account when understanding the meaning of the Bible, and especially not to use this as an excuse for using the Bible for an opposition to the findings of science which would turn this book into pure nonsense as far as I am concerned.
Nonsense. The concept of salvation comes from everyday experiences where people need to be saved from something that threatens their well being. God not only offers forgiveness but in Jesus offers it freely. It is the users of religion which try to put a price on it and make it into a temple market place.
Yeah the religious typically want a piece of that for themselves so they can dispense it for a price.
He did, but you won’t like it. The Holy Spirit.
Richard
Do I really have to answer either of these?
Whether Slavery is acceptable in terms of an institution or not it is still an undesirable state for the nation of God.
And as I was trying to say that the bible did not encourage the abolishment of slavery this extra clarification is neither here nor there.
Richard
The Holy Spirit is not reliable. Plenty of Holy Spirit filled people disagree on what Jesus meant on this or that subject. Martin Luther, the father of Protestants, believed that the book of James and Revelation should not even be in the Bible. And he had the Holy Spirit, allegedly.
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