A post was split to a new topic: Spin-off: What does image of God mean to Christians?
thanks for these responses. I only saw them now
This is all from a view that we got here through evolution and the interpretation of scripture.
(1.) If original sin is just a metaphor then that means Jesus died for a metaphor?
First is that original sin is not mentioned in scripture anywhere, and it is not hinted at either. I’m not guilty of Adam’s sin. I’m not guilty of Eve’s sin. But their sin did have consequences for the world but those consequences were not biological and they were not used to determine our afterlife. All sin is a choice. God has seen in his wisdom that all fall short of the glory of God. Who is the all? It’s clearly those who can understand it. So Jesus did not die just because of Adam. He did not resurrect just for Adam. He died because of all of our transgressions we commit and to pay our debt so we may have eternal life. Being born is not a sin. Being evil is.
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(2.)
Why did God not just say he created them from animals as opposed from a rib as a metaphor?
To me the stories in genesis are ahistorical. That’s not a typo for a historical but a ahistorical. That means it’s a combination of fiction and reality with the goal of directing people towards the truth. The reasons why he choose the metaphors he chose goes through a complexity of ancient Semitic views on humanity , spirituality, and creation. Look at all the other ancient myths about humans born out of this and that which is older than Judaism. Have you applied the same literal views on job? Job talks about “science” and “creation” as well. Genesis was written as poetry as well. Similar to many ancient and epic style poems. Here are some creation science in Job inspired by God as well.
( Job 38:8-11 )
8 “Or who enclosed the sea with doors
When, bursting forth, it went out from the womb;
9 When I made a cloud its garment
And thick darkness its swaddling band,
10 And I placed boundaries on it
And set a bolt and doors,
11 And I said, ‘Thus far you shall come, but no farther;
And here shall your proud waves stop’?
Or did God create a dragon as described in Job?
Or in Psalm 74:12-17.
Psalm 74:12-17 New American Standard Bible (NASB)
12 Yet God is my king from of old,
Who works deeds of deliverance in the midst of the earth.
13 You divided the sea by Your strength;
You broke the heads of the sea monsters in the waters.
14 You crushed the heads of Leviathan;
You gave him as food for the creatures of the wilderness.
15 You broke open springs and torrents;
You dried up ever-flowing streams.
16 Yours is the day, Yours also is the night;
You have prepared the light and the sun.
17 You have established all the boundaries of the earth;
You have made summer and winter.
Do you really think that during creation shortly after creating the great sea monsters he then killed them by smashing their heads and throwing their corpse pieces around throughout the world feeding them?
Or is Satan really a snake , and a dragon, sort of like a flying Leviathan that is king of the waters and prince of the air?
Why is it that some poetry is true and some poetry is not true? Is there really a giant door out there holding water that God opens and closes to let water in just like he kept the ark door shut to keep water out?
(3.) If Adam was a metaphor why does the Bible mention his lineage and age and ect…
I don’t think Adam is a metaphor. I think God through his infinite wisdom when he sparked life knowing eventually it would result in us. It’s not a contradiction to me. God is Alpha and Omega. He knows all things including what will happen. That’s how prophecy works. God knows what all of us are going to do. He knew Jesus would be born, he knew judas would betray jesus, and he knew when and who would conquer the Jews. But he did not make everything with those as his purpose. He simply knew it would happen.
But let’s say Adam is a metaphor. In general the first 11 chapters are often viewed as a metaphor. If so, that would mean his lineage was a metaphor and Jesus genealogy was meant to be inspired by it. Also, myths, metaphors and analogies often contain backstories to its characters. Entire fictional biographies significantly more detailed are created all the time.
(4.) Why believe in a miraculous birth and resurrection but not believe that creation is literal and a miracle as well.
For me it’s because of the scriptures themselves. The entire Torah hints are a coming messiah show is a god in the flesh. The Torah mentions his birth and many other details. The whole point of his birth is to restore humanity by fulfilling the law.
With creations we see major things happening in two chapters. God dedicated more time to counting the numbers of sheep the tribes owned.
(5.) Adam and Eve could not tell right or wrong but had human the ability to reason just like we do.
Well this has two main issues. The first is what determines right from wrong? It’s the law. Without the law there is no accountability to sin. As soon as God says what is right there are two choices. To obey or to disobey.
Romans 5:12-14 New American Standard Bible (NASB)
12 Therefore, just as through one man sin entered into the world, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men, because all sinned— 13 for until the Law sin was in the world, but sin is not imputed when there is no law. 14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam until Moses, even over those who had not sinned in the likeness of the offense of Adam, who is a type of Him who was to come.
The other issue is directly in the story itself. If the tree gave knowledge of good and evil, and that meant until they ate of it they had no understanding of good and evil then how did Eve know to not to trust the snake immediately. She first said no.
So before this, sin was already here but there was no law to hold you accountable it. Can dogs sin? The answer is no right? Yet my dog will lower his head knowing he did something wrong before I even know what he did. If dogs can tell they messed up then how could ancient humans from which Adam was called out of not know at least that much?
- If knowing right and wrong is what makes someone guilt of sin then if does that mean severally mentally handicapped people don’t need redemption.
Two parts again.
All of creation is waiting to be restored. Including the planet. The planet has never sinned. So every person, including the mentally handicapped is awaiting restoration.
If you don’t know right or wrong you can still sin. You’re just not help accountable to it. It’s a similar situation to kids.
Isaiah 7:15-16 New American Standard Bible (NASB)
15 He will eat curds and honey at the time He knows enough to refuse evil and choose good. 16 For before the boy will know enough to refuse evil and choose good, the land whose two kings you dread will be forsaken.
The mentally handicapped that can’t choose right or wrong does not need to saved from sin anymore than a infant, animals, or earth but humanity and nature is awaiting restoration.
(7.) If physical death was a consequence of sin then did natural selection occur?
I know you believe physical death was the result based off the verses about returning to dust(death). I disagree.
First to think that nothing could pass away would mean plants could not die. Which would contradict the fact we ate plants. Would it also mean mushrooms did not exist then? Or was it just fleshy creatures that could not die?
I believe scripture leaves this open as a good interpretation. As stated earlier Adam and Eve were historical people to me. The story mentions a tree of life and after Adam and Eve is drove out of the garden God worries that what if they came back and ate of a fruit that would keep them alive forever. I think that the garden was a foreshadow of them arc on earth and it’s just how God saved Noah through arc, saved numerous Jews by leading them to the promise land , and how god back to back has chosen remnants of people and provide a path to life. For Adam it was the garden with the fruit of life.
(8.) According to evolution there was no first human and you can’t conceive a primate without a soul? Well i would argue what is a soul? Scripturally a soul seems to be a living thing.
If you are familiar with the task of re-writing a popular myth to shape the audiences’ views with a re-worked vision then you wouldn’t be surprised to learn the Babylonian version of human creation included the the phrase “Lady of the Rib”.
The story of Eve being made from a rib was “inside joke” written by someone who knew the Sumerian version and this Sumerian language.
Thanks! I actually did not know that one. But will look it up. I’ve always wondered what drove that particular metaphor and have been interested but not yet digging more into ancient Semitic and Sumerian stories.