I always understood this as her speaking of something. I never understood it as a transalation for “speaking in tongues”. Thanks for the information. Yeah you guessed right im Greek but not bery good at my ancestors language as you can see😄
Could they maybe be authorized be paul but written by someone else? This was really comon back in the day . I think Mark did the same thing with the accounts of the gospel or something like that
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Are you in agreement, then, with Jonathan Edwards?
JONATHAN EDWARDS
The sight of hell torments will exalt the happiness of the saints forever. Can the believing father in Heaven be happy with his unbelieving children in Hell? I tell you, yea! Such will be his sense of justice that it will increase rather than diminish his bliss. [“The Eternity of Hell Torments” (Sermon), April 1739 & Discourses on Various Important Subjects, 1738]
Personally, I find this belief totally repulsive! I would dread spending an eternity in such a Heaven.
Al Leo
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I will rejoice because all God’s judgments are righteous and true and He will be glorified and honored in all that He does.
What is the difference between God and the devil?
Name? LOL People name things according to what is convenient to their own selfish interests. The Pharisees said Jesus cast out demons by the power of Beelzebub.
The difference is seen in their behavior. AND it is by their behavior I will choose whom to serve. Those who behave like criminals to rule by fear with threats are devils, and I will never serve them. To be sure, I do not judge the difference merely by what is convenient for me. I do not give service simply because they promise things. Many criminals make promises and so I expect no different from the devil. Will I give service to one who delights in the misery and torment of others? No I will not. Again the worst of criminals do the same and good people do not do so at all. So no, I do not, will not believe in a God who delights in someone’s demise. I do not think that means God will prevent people from consequences of what they insist on choosing for themselves – and so I am no universalist. Life is full of harsh realities and so the lesson is not lost me that we can still expect harshness and dire consequences even with a loving God.
But I would agree with aleo that this god of J. Edwards sounds more like a criminal and the devil than anyone I could admire let alone believe to be God.
I think that Edwards took things out of context. There was a lot of poetry in the OT, but “Do I take any pleasure in the death of the wicked? declares the Sovereign LORD. Rather, am I not pleased when they turn from their ways and live?” in Ezekiel.
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Yet the same sovereign Lord seemed to constracted some very harsh rules even for a momad society like the Isralites.
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Well, you might like reading “The Bible Tells Me So” by Peter Enns; it talks a lot about how some of those rules actually contradict each other, and were recorded later than the time. As you know, I don’t take the rules as inerrant or correct. I think that Jesus was a better representation.
“God’s Word in Human Words” is another book about textual criticism by an evangelical scholar, Kenton Sparks, that I’m reading now. Denis Lamoureux recommended it; I am finding it helpful, as it seems to put the words in context more, while still regarding the Bible as God’s word.
My parents were tremendously Christlike to us. They were always able to look at the bright side of our trying and failing to do the right thing. I think that’s why all four of us stayed in the church. They seemed to me to be a model of how God is–how could He, being righteous, be any worse than my own parents?
George Macdonald wrote books that helped me understand that, too. Here is a description of his “Unspoken Sermon” on God’s justice. True justice corrects. It doesn’t vindicate. It is for the growth of the child, not the dignity of the parent. I honestly think that the OT Hebrews misunderstood a lot of God through their lenses.
There are still portions of the OT that imply that, though-- Jonah 4:11 11And should I not have concern for the great city of Nineveh, in which there are more than a hundred and twenty thousand people who cannot tell their right hand from their left -and also many animals
Psalm 103–As a father has compassion on his children, the Lord has compassion on those who fear Him; for He knows our frame; He remembers that we are dust
Thanks. Experimental Theology: George MacDonald: Justice, Hell and Atonement
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What do you mean by “all the Deuteronomy ones”?
Nickolaos…Christy’s comments to you below are most appropriate. None of the issues raised by you with re to Deuteronomy or Leviticus are “understudied,” as she said. As for the verses “commanded disobedient children to be stoned” – I assume you refer to some of the last verses of Deuteronomy 21. I heard a specialist (speaking at a lecture) say that the law inscribed in those verses (v 18-20) was “for educational purposes only” and only applied to a boy for about three months before he was bar-mitzvahed and thus became an adult…another commentator said the offense attributed to this son was the consumption of foods sacrificed in worship to othe gods" etc… You can go on and on with some of this…
There are some passages in Deuteronomy that we can well support even in our times, so it is good to look at the text as a whole rather. But study this for yourself rather than throwing up your hands.
If it were it would be something indicating that
In reference to the rebellious, wicked drunkard, God said execute him so the rebellion would not spread among God’s people. This was a righteous and wise judgment, you know that wicked people will not inherit the kingdom of God, don’t you? Stop deceiving yourselves! Sexually immoral people, idolaters, adulterers, male prostitutes, homosexuals, thieves, greedy people, drunks, slanderers, and robbers will not inherit the kingdom of God.
What God commanded was also very loving, it was for the protection of His people, He didnt want wickedness to remain in His house and harm the others in it. His judgments are true, loving and pure.
well…that was one professor’s theory —based on definition of adulthood, the lecturer’s or someone else’s concept of age of accountability…so for three months in one’s 13th year… As you can see, there are a range of ideas…and you do have a point
So everyone picks the one he likes? But thats not doing any good on apologetics though
Well…apologetics is one thing but you were inquiring about “hard to swallow” verses. I know that the books of the Pentateuch have challenging things in them. And sometimes the biggest challenge is from people who claim to have studied them and know what these verses say and mean — and how to apply them today, if at all.
But others here recommended that you find biblical commentaries and explore their analyses. “Well studied” is the term, I believe, someone used. And I am not sure that “everyone picks the one he likes” works well for many things outside of, maybe, doughnuts and cupcakes. I am just noting that those are two evaluations I have seen for that particular passage in Deuteronomy–which seems to involve (as the passage describes) an effort made to correct a problem. Study for yourself…there may be more ideas out there…And btw, not all of those ideas will “work.” you just have to give them consideration…
I hope it’s appropriate for me (as a new user) to express my gratitude for the courtesy Biologos forum users show to each other. The equal value you place upon Head and Heart dialogue is priceless.
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Welcome to the forum grateful! Im glad beign the first one to welcome you. Thank you a lot for your kind words and i appreciate it very much. Wishing you a blessed day! Take care!
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Glad to see that you feel comfortable with the site, Grateful.
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