How can God be clearly seen in nature if he's not detectable

[cewoldt (Craig Ewoldt)]

Well, the meaning of Romans 1:18-20 and Psalm 19:1 has generated a lot of discussion, as well it should.

@St.Roymond

So this claim:

@cewoldt

The witness of the heavens and God’s creation is universally available to all people: to the great and small, to the wise and simple, to the young and to the old, to the believer and the seeker, and even to the godless and wicked.

asserts more than the text is saying. Paul is talking about people to whom God had revealed Himself yet they rejected Him; as people to whom God had revealed Himself all the things He made clearly inform them about Him – so people to whom God hadn’t or hasn’t revealed Himself are not in view here.

Wow! Your claim is that God has not revealed himself to everyone through his creation, only some. That is much less, not much more than the text says. The text makes no such limitation. Creation is God’s universal witness as all have access to it. And as such, those who suppress the truth are without excuse.

@rsewell

It seems to me that you insist that God’s creation can only be seen in the things of nature, and not the processes of nature.

Many of the comments in this thread are a distortion or misunderstanding of biblical creationists–an argument from ignorance. It is as if you are in an echo chamber listening to other evolutionists and cheering on those beating up straw men.

Of course, biblical creationists see God working through the processes of nature.

@rsewell

but whales descended in accordance with natural laws do not? Do you only see God’s power manifest where nature is insufficient?

Of course it is pretty hard to see God’s power manifested in whale evolution when that is an evolving tale rather than based on any solid evidence. I know, I know, when it is shown to be a weak narrative, there is a pile on of evolutionists making contrary claims And when those claims are refuted, the bench is emptied by more evolutionists again piling on–ad infinitum, ad nauseum.

@Dale

Yes, it limits God in not being able to design a system that generates diversity. (A system which just incidentally corresponds to physical reality. ; - )

No this comment I find fascinating. What is this “designed system?” Oh yeah, now for theistic evolution, we are back to evolution being a system designed by God. Actually, God designed creatures with sensors able to detect the environment they are in and engineered them with the ability internally to adapt. So absolutely, God is able to design a system that generates diversity. But he does not deceive us by hiding those processes though evolution. Rather, as we study more about creatures, we are finding more evidence for these sensors and the engineered features that allow organisms to both sense and adapt. This is not natural selection, the evolutionist’s substitute agent, working on the organism, but rather the engineered and designed organism responding to the enviornment.

@St.Roymond

I was a university student, back before the young-Earth crowd hijacked the term to try to smuggle horrid science and bad theology into public schools.

Why don’t you advance a legitimate argument rather than using an ad hominem attack? Wow, “smuggle,” “horrid science,” “bad theology.” Terrible people. Imagine people who believe that God created would believe that the creator, designer and engineer could be seen in what he created, designed and engineered.

@St.Roymond

Either way, don’t forget that these statements (Psalm 19) were made by someone who already believed in God and thus say nothing about what unbelievers will see.

The point is that unbelievers do see the witness of creation. And the point of Romans 1 is that they suppress it in unrighteousness. There is no excuse, such as in “I just don’t believe; I can’t make myself believe.”