Truth tell, I often find allegories “on rails” and painted in neon colors. To me Lion, Witch, and Wardrobe comes close to “OK, I get it already”. Sometimes you just want to be immerged in a good crackling story with a lot of engaging world building.
3 Likes
There is not a one to one correspondence as in an allegory. But even with Aslan, he seems to die to save only one boy and is a contemporary of Father Christmas/Santa. What is with that?
As I have said many times, I’ve no problem with those who want to see Jesus’ offices in Aragorn, Gandalf, and Frodo, I just don’t see it myself. But, again, if you think differently, more power to you. I hope you can respect that. Since our aside has already taken up quite a bit of space in this thread, shall we agree to disagree? 
I’m too soon old and too late smart otherwise I’d work on getting a Phd. in literature, specializing in Tolkien’s literature and give Tom Shippey a run for his money.
2 Likes
Tolkien was a Roman Catholic, so there are specifically Catholic themes in LOTR. There are two Marian figures in the books, Galadriel and Elbereth. Galadriel appears to Frodo in an apparition on his way to Mount Doom. She reminds Frodo that only he can bear the ring. (There is a strong sense of providence in the books.) Also, Frodo and Sam encounter some elves singing a hymn to Elbereth. The words bear a striking resemblance to the Salve Regina. Later in the journey Frodo cries out to Elbereth. ( Catholics like to ask Mary for her prayers and intercessions.)
Maria, ora pro nobis! (btw, I’m not a Catholic)
1 Like
Pax Vobis cum (me neither, but the church is catholic, universal )
2 Likes
Yes. Pax Vobiscum
“I believe one holy catholic and apostolic church”
2 Likes
EDIT: No longer intended as a reply to you @beaglelady or to anyone in particular. Just leaving the quotes for those who might be interested.
Letter #208 1958, a summary of which says:
Tolkien stated that The Lord of the Rings had no “message” – no preaching, no delivering of a personal vision of truth. He wrote an exciting story with an atmosphere and background he found personally attractive, although inevitably one’s own taste, ideas, and beliefs become incorporated.
The letter goes on to note that if there is any central theme, to the author, it was the theme of death.
Elsewhere, in a letter to his publisher (included in the Tolkien Reader) he says:
“It is not ‘about’ anything but itself. Certainly, it has no allegorical intentions, general, particular, or topical, moral, religious, or political.”
In his review of LotR, CS Lewis said,
"there are no pointers to a specifically theological, or political, or psychological application.”
Edit 2 - Start
However, in Letter #142 to Robert Murray SJ 1952, Tolkien did say:
The Lord of the Rings is of course a fundamentally religious and Catholic work; unconsciously so at first, but consciously in the revision. That is why I have not put in, or have cut out, practically all references to anything like ‘religion’, to cults or practices, in the imaginary world. For the religious element is absorbed into the story and the symbolism.
Edit 2 end
And yet, 14 years later, in a 1966 interview he stated that the quest beginning on 25th December was “just an accident" and that since the story was “not a Christian myth anyhow. It was a purely unimportant date.”
In the same interview, on similarities between Frodo and Jesus both being saviours, Tolkien said,
“Well, you know, there’ve been saviours before; it is a very common thing.”
I include once more the references to Sam being the central hero:
Letter 131:
I think the simple ‘rustic’ love of Sam and his Rosie (nowhere elaborated) is absolutely essential to the study of his (the chief hero’s) character, and to the theme of the relation of ordinary life (breathing, eating, working, begetting) and quests, sacrifice, causes, and the ‘longing for Elves’, and sheer beauty.
Letter 184:
It was very kind of you to write. You can imagine my astonishment, when I saw your signature! I can only say, for your comfort I hope, that the ‘Sam Gamgee’ of my story is a most heroic character, now widely beloved by many readers, even though his origins are rustic.
Letter 91 to his son, Christopher:
Here is a small consignment of ‘The Ring’: the last two chapters that have been written, and the end of the Fourth Book of that great Romance, in which you will see that, as is all too easy, I have got the hero into such a fix that not even an author will be able to extricate him without labour and difficulty. Lewis was moved almost to tears by the last chapter. All the same, I chiefly want to hear what you think, as for a long time now I have written with you most in mind.
Note that the final chapter of the Two Towers is told exclusively from Sam’s perspective.
4 Likes
Fantasy is interesting with Christian writers like Lewis and Tolkien. They are vivid and intriguing. Because they are fantasy, they can be applied to childhood situations. I remember reading fantasy when I was young. As I look back, I feel like it adversely affected my outlook on God. It made me think that there is something mystical and magical about the way God works with our lives.
Recently, I have found some sources of “adult” SciFi/Christianity. I put “adult” in quotes because the reading is intellectually stimulating toward God; I do not know that children will understand the underlying concepts and plot. It is fiction because the context cannot be proven. Yet, it is filled with possibilities about how God and this world operate with a positive outlook of our roles to be good stewards of Earth.
1 Like
I’m also enjoying Rings of Power so far. I noticed the sense of providence in the show, Similar to that in the LOTR.
btw, people have been losing their poop over casting black people as proto-hobbits in ROP. But do we know what color real hobbits are?
Yeah, that is a strange phenomenon. I guess I watch enough PBS where casting is colorblind that I hardly noted it. The only things that makes it a little odd is that you would think hobbits elves and such would be somewhat homogeneous if they lived and reproduced in a small population center, but who is say that there was not ample genetic diversity from village to village. And do long lived elves reproduce much? Seems like I did not see any elf kids, and if there were, they must be rare to go along with their long lives. Such are the mysteries of mystic lands. The orcs seem to be fairly indeterminate as to race and ethnic group, so guess that is OK.
1 Like
Given that their early ancestors lived at about 45-55 N, paler skin seems likely, but not guaranteed.
The visuals in Rings of Power have been great. The scope of the world feels Tolkien. It is stunning. I’m not enthralled by the angry Galadriel right now though. Elrond also isn’t doing much for me either. Hoping the main characters become more likable.
1 Like
What a gift to be able to give to his son! Such a wonderful letter.
What a quote:
Just lovely. Thanks, Liam!
2 Likes
And then there are Liam and I gumming up the system.
But we still like you, @beaglelady, even if we view the books differently.
The one great advantage about our disagreements is that we keep talking about books we all really like!
2 Likes
Caleb, look who else is in this thread! All the posts are nerd-out posts. 
Ok. It’s against some rule somewhere to mention the existence of books you like without at least telling the title and author.
2 Likes
You’re being a tad patronizing.
[Removed by moderator]
What did you think about the striking parallels between the hymn to Elbereth and the Salve Regina?
I’m sorry you feel I was being patronizing. I was trying to be friendly and upbeat.
2 Likes
Ok.
Here is a preview
3 Likes
Thanks!