Holy Post on YEC

Yes, Phil voiced Bob, and also Jimmy Gourd, and Archibald Asparagus, which is probably the one I most hear “come out” in his voice once in a while, especially when singing. Mike Nawrocki (VeggieTales co-founder) did Larry and also Jerry Gourd… and maybe some of the French peas?

That surprised me too. “Young earth” and “evolution” went hand-in-hand for my whole life, so it’s interesting to learn that there was a time when that wasn’t necessarily so, especially coming from someone who was considered a hero of the faith.

I also thought the part about colleges “going liberal” was interesting – that was always my perception, that Christian colleges that taught evolution had made a recent shift due to “secularization” or something like that… when many of them have been doing it for longer than YEC has been trending.

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I didn’t find that exactly, but here’s a quote from the Scopes trial. Bryan says:
–from GeoChristian

Clarence Darrow [D]: ‘Mr Bryan, could you tell me how old the Earth is?’

William Jennings Bryan B: ‘No, sir, I couldn’t.’

[D]: ‘Could you come anywhere near it?’

B: ‘I wouldn’t attempt to. I could possibly come as near as the scientists do, but I had rather be more accurate before I give a guess.’

[D]: ‘Does the statement, “The morning and the evening were the first day,” and “The morning and the evening were the second day,” mean anything to you?’

B: ‘I do not think it necessarily means a twenty-four-hour day.’

[D]: ‘You do not?’

[D]: ‘Then, when the Bible said, for instance, “and God called the firmament heaven. And the evening and the morning were the second day,” that does not necessarily mean twenty-four-hours?’

B: ‘I do not think it necessarily does.’ ‘I think it would be just as easy for the kind of God we believe in to make the Earth in six days as in six years or in six million years or in 600 million years. I do not think it important whether we believe one or the other.’

[D]: ‘And they had the evening and the morning before that time for three days or three periods. All right, that settles it. Now, if you call those periods, they may have been a very long time.’

B: ‘They might have been.’

[D]: ‘The creation might have been going on for a very long time?’

B: ‘It might have continued for millions of years.’

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It certainly is not my claim that my view of evangelical history is the correct one. That is as dubious as the claim that ones Christianity is the correct one. Interpretation is always a big component of any telling of history as it is in the function of human memory. It is about deciding what meaning and lessons we take from the events in history. To be sure I am somewhat biased toward the experiential “flavor” as you call it from Finney, seeing much less value in the contributions of Wesley, Whitfield, and Edwards, which in my mind have more to do with early American Christianity and its various denominations. Since Quakerism is one of my favorite historical religions, I am particularly interested in the religious ideals which drew them into the evangelical movement, and far less interested in what I choose to see as the southern Baptist hijacking of the movement and its involvement in politics.

It is honestly and frankly focused on what I see of value in the evangelical movement and seeking to downplay the parts of the movement which I simply wish didn’t exist at all.

BUT that doesn’t mean I am without interest in different interpretations and understandings of this history which I have to admit shines light on things which I tend to ignore. Which is why the video above held my attention to the end. It is always good to know all of the facts.

Indeed, that is also a big part of my own motivation for focusing on the particular sector of the evangelical movement which I like and looking for reasons to discount the sectors which I hope to see the end of as soon as possible.

Yes… it is good to resist the human tendency to lump all of the things we dislike together.

LOL Are you absolutely sure that was a typo. LOL

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I only pray @LM77 doesn’t hear of this.

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There are pockets of Twitter that are truly enjoyable. @Christy and I bumped into each other in the #WCT (Weird Christian Twitter) portion of the site. I probably spend more time on it than I should, but WCT has helped me retain faith when the US evangelical sphere kept coming up with new and creative ways to disappoint and discourage me in 2020.

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That sounds interesting. I have never really looked hard at Twitter, but may now that one of the irritating users may not be on it as much this year. (Reprimand given and accepted. Sorry)

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Look me up if you decide to spend any time there, Phil!

I wasn’t saying they were. I was just commenting on the fact that people get offended when you bring up facts about racist things that did happen. As if acknowledging that racism motivated some of the political and religious alliances is calling everyone at all associated an evil person. Self-identifying Evangelicals of today have some racist roots. They also have roots in the abolitionist movement. But people need to own all of their heritage to understand how it impacts the present, not just pick the parts they are proud of.

If you really study it out, abortion only became an Evangelical/Fundamentalist rallying cry after the civil rights movement proved they were on the wrong side of history with the anti-desegregation stuff and when that proved too divisive to unite Northerners.

I think part of that history is covered in this Holy Post podcast, which is also a real winner for understanding the landscape of Evangelicalism today:

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I find myself wanting to talk about ideas from The Righteous Mind here. I don’t think the Bible has to be literally true or to function by appealing to our rational minds in order to be of value culturally. My hunch is that there is a lot of hyperbole in it but it isn’t actionable directives for our rationality to work on. If it has any cultural value it is because it sets the rational mind up to expect something greater, disposing it to look for -and find- resources that are inherent in us but not by way of our usual pathways. If it sounds like I don’t know what I’m talking about, that’s true. Whatever it is is outside the range of what we can ‘know’. But that is my 2¢ worth.

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3 posts were merged into an existing topic: Spin-off: Following Jesus v. following Paul

A post was merged into an existing topic: Spin-off: Following Jesus v. following Paul

I’m sorry…you are right. . It is important to realize that even if we have nothing to do with the faulty beginnings of something, some may view the organization with distrust for past abuses. In addition, we have to always be on guard from the “yeast” getting in again.
He, Skye and Christian do have a great podcast.

Yes! I’m currently reading the Color of Compromise, which is about how exclusion based on race/slavery was at the foundation of the church in America. The two most prominent people in the early American church (George Whitefield and Jonathan Edwards) both owned slaves and although they believed that slaves could be saved by Jesus, it would not free them from bondage, and used the Bible’s examples of “slaves obey your masters” to reinforce the idea that God condoned it.

Definitely worth a read, I’m learning a lot! It is a historical look, goes all the way from the formation of America to today.

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Thanks again for this too, Christy! The Holy Post is (for me) only a newly discovered treasure here, even with just listening to the two you’ve linked. Are they all this good?

I do find myself most disappointed (and not surprised since I’ve run across this in other venues already) in Eric Mataxas whom I first encountered in his excellent series about C.S. Lewis [or Lewis’ literary advocate Walter Hooper, rather], and even in his cordial reception (at least at one time) of Francis Collins. It appears that by now however, he’s “drunk the koolaid” and gotten himself immersed in Trump-blinded fundamentalisms. A most disappointing development for somebody who was known for celebrating the life of the mind. (Socrates in the City).

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It’s my favorite podcast, because it’s a nice balance of serious and silly, informal chat and formal interview. I feel like they aim for that audience of Evangelicals who are feeling kind of homeless at the moment, which I resonate with. The recent one on CRT was really good.

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I think I need a Twitter For The Complete Dummy. I find it very hard to navigate or find anything there. When I did a search for Weird Christian I just got people’s usernames that included that.

But I also found that historical bit about evangelism’s roots informative. Much more complex than I realized.

(I know I’m back before the 24 hours predicted, @Christy, but the first s-storm is over an I’ve got some hours before I have to precipitate the next. Happy to report that my ship did not flood.)

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No joke, I had to read a Twitter tutorial for senior citizens to even know what to click on.

I’m still fairly inept myself. Basically, what you see on your “timeline” on Twitter once you have an account is determined by who you follow. WeirdChristianTwitter or WCT is just a hashtag that a certain group of users, many of whom follow each other and similar people, use to tag tweets they think would interest the whole group. You can get your name on a list that basically puts any post with the hashtag in your time line.

Twitter can be a real cesspool, but if you are selective about who you follow and tailor it to your interests, you can avoid the sketchy corners fairly easily. The thing that I find a little overwhelming is that people use Twitter for so many different reasons; for promoting content elsewhere, for professional networking, for friendly banter, for scoping out potential dates, for picking fights and hate reading, so you have to get very good at skimming and scrolling through the time line to find interesting things, because everything is public and decontextualized. It’s another time suck, honestly, that I only justify to myself as necessary to keep my finger on the pulse of the world, isolated as I am here in the Mexican boonies.

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I need that for Instagram. It took me ages to realize I could pause stories. Before that, I hated them so much, since I couldn’t read fast enough! :laughing:

I’m still iffy on posting and sharing. I know how to post one or more pictures and have it go to IG and FB. Sharing other people’s content is a bit trickier, and I think I can only share in stories, not actual posts. Usually, I’m just wanting to share it in a Facebook post.

I think there’s a reason why old folks use Facebook more than the other platforms. And I’m only in my early 40’s, so I’m not even “old” yet. :stuck_out_tongue:

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Actually, I think the problem is finding Twitter for Not complete dummies; it seems all too easy to find things on Twitter for complete dummies.

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Well I took the plunge. I shared this one on my Facebook page.

Guess I’ll find out which of my secular crowd is as open minded as the best of you and which are wed to thinking Christianity = YEC. I don’t think I’ll make a habit of this but curiosity has won this round.

It just occurred to me that not speaking up at all when religion is equated with YEC and ridiculed, is a little like being a non-racist but not speaking up when family members start talking like they’re at a clan meeting. Guess I may have to make some effort if I’m going to be able hold my head high here and in front of the mirror.

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“Let your conversation be always full of grace, seasoned with salt, so that you may know how to answer everyone.” -Colossians 4:6

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