Hell , death and the 2nd death?

[still_learning]

I posted this in another thread, but it seems fitting here.

@still_learning

George Macdonald (is a huge proponent of Christus Victor) is a universalist/inclusivist (not sure of proper term)?. He seems to believe that hell will be longer for some than others, but the point of hell is to purify, like fire does to gold, the more corrupted it is, the longer it takes to bring out the impurities with fire. Sometimes one needs to be purified to be able to see the light, to uncover their eyes so they can see that Jesus is the only way. Fire doesn’t save, but it purifies.

Like laser eye surgery, all it does is fix your eyesight, not your eyes. If you eye was growing asymmetrically, it will continue to do so. All the laser surgery did was shape your lens to fit the jacked up state of unbalances eye you have at the moment. I had laser surgery 8 years ago and my vision is slowly getting worse again.

The fire can purify the gold, but this is worthless if the gold is living in impurities. It will just get right back to needing fire purification again. One needs to first pull the gold out of the ‘pit of impurities’, then one can be placed in the fire and purified forever.

That is what salvation/sanctification is like. Knowing/trusting in the life and teachings of Jesus is the only thing that brings us out of the ‘pit of impurities’, Jesus saves, but the wrath of God, the consuming fire and trials we are brought through is what purifies us. Obeying the will of the Father up into the point of death is what Jesus taught and wants us to do. But the only way to do that is to have the Spirit living in/through us, that is being pulled out of the pit.

Like you, eternal suffering doesn’t seem to go along with the entire biblical narrative. Jesus conquered death. To say that people live on to sin for eternity, seems to contradict that. Is sin now more powerful than Jesus? Can the love of God transform only some, but not all?

I think when the scriptures say that every knee will bow, I think this is after many years, when all have been purified and have experienced the transforming love of God.

Now as to Satan and the angels being forever in hell, I think that might be true. An analogy that comes to mind is my children. No matter if your child is Hitler, you still want them to repent. But if your arm decides to turn on you, you will cut it off, and don’t want to ever re-attach it. I see angels as an extension of God’s body, which He uses to get things done, but when they turn on Him, He cut them off, never to be re-attached. But no matter how bad your child screws up, you love them and want them to repent. You don’t need them to suffer nor any intermediary to suffer for them, you want repentant, living right. God doesn’t require us to suffer, nor did He require Jesus to suffer. Jesus did suffer in living here and conquering the powers of darkness, but it wasn’t the suffering that was required, but was endured to bring about a purpose. But maybe I am more of an annihilationist when it comes to the fallen angels?

But we don’t know much about angels/demons, so I could be wrong of them too.

But the important part which I think you said in a different post is that this is just brain candy. It is neat to discuss and chew on, but it doesn’t really benefit us. The goal is the live the repentant life, love God with all our hearts, minds, souls, strength, and put the well being of our neighbors above our own. That is the love of God that will flow through us, through the Spirit Jesus gave us, that will save anyone who needs to be saved, but more importantly, glorify Him who wants us all to live that way.

I am a Christian, I believe in the saving power of Jesus while I am living, but I don’t think, nor am I motivated to act to ensure others know Jesus in this life or face eternal damnation. I still do want people to know Jesus in the life though, but because He is life, He makes this current life and the life to come more abundant. I wish all to know the love of God and wish they could see it in me. Where they end up eternally is not of my concern, nor should it be, that is for God to decide.

Maybe I do end up in hell for eternity for interpreting the Bible wrong. So be it, I live to honor my Creator (or want to) and if He wants me in hell, that is were I belong. My main sorrow would not glorifying Him with my fullest extent. I think we all deserve hell and eternal punishment for being so greatly unworthy of God. Thankfully God is loving, just and merciful, and sent His Son so we don’t have to live a live separated form Him. So I don’t think I will be in hell, but again, it isn’t about final destination, but on earth now, my eyes have been opened, I am living in heaven, I am living with my Creator, attempting to honor Him in all I do, dragged down my this flesh which will one ay be gone and I will be able to truly honor Him in all I do.