It’s my answer and I do not subscribe to that dichotomy.
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And my non-evasive, not burying my head in the sand answer is:“to live is Christ.” Jesus is far more important than correct science and it would be sheer lunacy for any Christian to suggest otherwise
Vinnie
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No, it’s based on the fact that secularism and non theism are rising in society. Is that a suitable trade-off for declining numbers of YECs? Clearly the question went over your head.
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But if the majority of the Christians wanted to expel all the non-Christians, the answer would have to be the third or even fourth option you intentionally exclude. G.Brooks
No one is talking about expelling anyone. What are you going on about?
Vinnie,
And nobody here is talking about choosing between ATHEISM vs. CHRISTIANITY.
BioLogos exists SPECIFICALLY to bring GOD to evolutionary perspectives. So why are you going on about a false and deceptive dilemma?
G.Brooks
I wasn’t talking to you, I was not talking about the Biologos mission. You are bringing your baggage to my question.
I’m asking Ron about how positive those statistics really are considering non-theism is on the rise. It really shouldn’t be this difficult to understand.
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And if the rise of non-theism is triggered by the stubborn views of Evangelicals who reject science, the answer would REQUIRE at least one more answer which you reject for propaganda purposes.
I am not cheering for secularism; do not shoot the messenger. What I am saying is that given a technological and educated society, a worldview based massively on science denial will inevitably erode over time because people will sort out reality for themselves. No advocacy or strategy, however well intended to higher purpose, will prevent this cognitive dissonance from happening.
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I would only nitpick that phrasing I put in bold. Science denial is a part of very conservative belief, but I think the worldview is massively based on Christ and the Bible. Any science denial simply stems from that and historical circumstances. The problem from my perspective is people paint themselves into a corner (science or Bible) and this is a fire of our own making.
But I don’t think it’s really a good thing if the number of YECs is decreasing while the number of non-theists in increasing. In my experience, one religion is being downgraded into another.
Vinnie
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No, I like to make sure we are on the same page here. And Of course the either/or is a fire of our own making.
Vinnie
You have many posts and topics in this forum making a robust defense of the faith. While I do not always align with your thoughts exactly, you provide an essential perspective.
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Vinnie, The solution is to teach the YEC’s that God is happy to use evolutionary forces to sustain creation.
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My whole point went right over your head. Of course that is ideal. Far easier said than done. I still struggle with the ugliness of evolution and life only working at the expense of essentially the destruction of other life.
Vinnie
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While I see that view, my thought is that evolution is more about thriving. All life if finite, but evolution allows for future generations to thrive more fully. Sometimes it is by being a better predator of course, but often by just being more fit, which may mean being more social, more reclusive, more efficient with their resources.
The Augustinians blame this on our spiritual fathers.
The Orthodox community concludes that a life in the horrible materialism of the Universe is part of God’s education of a soul before a wonderful afterlife.
In either case, @Vinnie , millions and millions of Christians (whether in the East or the West) have included an acceptance of the scientific method to understand the world from which we will be rescued.
Why is it that you object to either starting premise? Do you have a THIRD choice in mind?
I accept it. Doesn’t mean I entirely understand it or that I am emotionally comfortable with it. Same for the problem of evil.
I teach science for a living. That is not the issue.
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@Vinnie , Study the Eastern Orthodox writings about their acceptance of sin as an intentional choice by God. As a way of raising mature souls…. From our Western perspective, it takes a little getting used to… but the Eastern perspective is some 1,500 years of Christian generation upon generation - - NOT WORRYING about the imperfections of the Universe.
As my hippy brothers might have said: the Eastern Orthodox community (with the possible exception of the Russian orthodox) is happier in their sinful skins than those within the Augustinian communion.
That’s kind of like throwing a recipe book in the trash because there’s of one recipe that doesn’t taste good to you.
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But we do habe observable facts…lots of them.
Whats more, these facts are historical ones…not merely scientific hypothesis.
What you are doing there is ignoring almkst 3500 years of history and over writing that with hypothsis amd theory from time periods where we have absolutely zero documented evidence…then you call that facts???
The idea that a made up secular narrative overrides historical data is ridiculous.
Examples of my complaint there are found in things such as the Eberrites (lineage of Noahs great great grandson) we have artefacts from their city that have been dated to the exact time period in the bible, canaanite letters in musuems written to pharoah about semetics (habiru) attacking their cities at exactly the same time period as the conquest of canaan in the bible…these cities are even the exact same ones mentioned in the bible…thats just for starters…there is acfually a large amount of evidence if you would just bother looking for it which no one here does…and they dont for a reason, it trashes the biologos world view and turns this worldview into a madeup fabrication that has little credible theological referenced support.
Whether people here accept it or not, the reality is this…in academia, A “religious world” view must have strong theological referenced support. It must have this simply because, it first and foremost claims to be religious…in this case Christian. So if the bible doesnt support the worldview, then its neither biblical nor Christian, there are no ifs buts or maybes in that…its either one or the other.