Just that far demonstrates that you do not have it straight. The major thing that is difficult, even impossible for us to get our heads around (they’re too small to get around God) is that tensed language like will, in the future, do not really apply to God. Jesus humbled himself and limited himself to our time constraints, but God (the Father)* is not so limited. You have seen before my contention that God is omnitemporal and is in a now, all of the time (past, present and future), dynamic relationship to all of sequential time.
Ohh i got it as straight as possible.Your argument doesnt dictate my thoughts.Just because you cited a verse which in my opinion shouldnt have been in the bible in the first place because it puts the trinity in question( The Son doesnt know but the Father does? Bruh they are one .The most silly verse the author of that book wrote .And it wasnt Matthew the apostle) but it also doesnt prove what you are saying/
Just because God sees time different or i dont know how to call it that doesnt mean that there is not future ,past or present.
You cant argue a point by saying "that dpoesnt apply’ yeah no ■■■■
that doesnt apply but we are humans and these are the words we got.
Also what does time have to do with God knowing what we were going to do?
As if it changes something.I really dont get the reasoning some Christians have here.
When you are cornered and pressed into a difficult question you are all over the place with counter arguments that dont make any sense or do not correlate to the original argument.Like i get it you are obligated to defend your faith( which im not fighting it btw)but comon .
When we argue about good and evil, and what God has/will do, we cannot escape the obvious understanding we have, that of knowing the difference between good and evil - thus if we understand this difference, surely God does also. Thus, theodicy brings up very difficult questions, in that God has created a world in which we may commit evil acts. How would we as Christians respond when we believe God is total goodness? I am merely indicating the difficulties this question brings and that we cannot sidestep them. I am not inclined to begin a detailed discussion on this thread, but simply to point out that it is a difficult discussion.
Agreed. My point about “the major thing” was not about the major thing overall, but just in respect to the subject immediately at hand, namely God’s relationship to time (we were talking about the future tense of will).
Klax
(The only thing that matters is faith expressed in love.)
128
Apart from the utter NONSENSE!!! of Wikipedia, which, for some interesting reason, you won’t see and cannot acknowledge with its 26 references to Boyd, despite citing, the opentheism website does not mention Boyd, Satan gets two mentions and demon gets none. Great. It’s still a morass of proof texting (nearly 600), which like all apologetics, never works.
It gets fallaciously, rhetorically, anti-intellectually worse:
Because God is Free the Future Must be Open
Ultimately, open theism is not based on man’s freedom but on God’s freedom. Open theism is the Christian doctrine that the future is not settled but open because God is alive, eternally free, and inexhaustibly creative. Although this undeniable truth is virtual heresy to many Calvinist and Arminian theologians, regardless, open theists affirm the obvious, thatGod is able to think new thoughts. And He can write new songs. And if He so desires He could design new butterflies too.
Typically a Christian had been cornered on free will and such and decided to create this stupid whatever theory of open theism to prove God can’t create evil blah blah. For me this theory doesn’t hold any ground. Is as far fetched as flat earth.
Really Christians have done a very poor job trying to defend their thesis on free will and evil.
To me it’s even more ludicrous when they know they are wrong yet they still insist they are right.
“OHHH look the future yet is not decided because God is alive and he can still choose our ending”
“But that’s predestination still plus God is is outside of time”
“NOOO YOU DONT GET IT”
A typicall conversation between a Christian who even if God came down and told him that ain’t it wouldn’t change his mind in the slightest.
Well 2000 years have passed,thousands and thousands of theologians,hundreds of apologetics yet still one haven’t find a good answer to this. Curious as to why . Maybe it’s the truth? Maybe God can create evil?
Maybe we are indeed in a fixed future?
I don’t want to believe the second one but it might be the harsh truth
I pointed out the difficulty in discussing this and not
A good answer begins with a question: Can you, or any critic, show how an alternate world and human beings could be created to enable every good thing, any avoid any mistake, accident, intent, creative endeavor (the list goes on)? … a serious discussion/debate with critics needs such a response from them - otherwise it sounds like they have a need for endless winging.
Isnt that the responsibility of an all loving.powerfull good God?
You are using a “God of the gaps” argument here in your favour .You are assuming that just because we critics dont come up with an argument like what you stated above(which again is not our responsibility and we are humans thus we cant possibly come up with an argument like this) that an alternative doesnt exist.You just accept defacto that thats the only way God would have made things . DE FACTO.
I hope you understand whats wrong with your reasoning
The burden of proof lies in your end not mine. You are in denial of beign any other way of God making this different.I point out that there could be other ways.And you are asking me what other way could be as if im God
As for that
very mature statement there,bravo.I wont go into further with this because clearly if not sarcasm the intention here is to cause a reaction
Klax
(The only thing that matters is faith expressed in love.)
133
Everybody ignores the only possible answer if nature is grounded in God: it’s nature, leave it the **** alone. If anything God creates nature, which is neither good nor evil and both. And the future is unreal but when it happens it will (happen) as it always has from eternity. God . could . not . care . less. Notwithstanding He popped by as Jesus to say sorry. Without words. None of it will matter in the transcendent, in which He gets up close and personal and fixes everything that suffers being natural.
Thats sad saying a father couldnt care less for his children
Big lol right there.A sorry wont fix things Klax mate .I actually get irritated when people make mistakes and they think that with just saying “sorry” suddenly i feel better or things changed and i altered my opinion.It doesnt work like that.Either dont ask sorry at all or try to fix things
2000 years have passed and still waiting. Im starting to think that this hope that everything are gonna get right in the end is vile. The apostles made a mistake.I dont think Jesus is coming back sadly.We are our own. Plus the debates the early christians had about revelation not even beign “inspired” and my doubts are growing.Some christians dont even consider revelation on par with the gospels .Soo…
