Let’s be honest. Any foundation for “why Christianity is true” can ultimately be deconstructed. There is no argument or proof that can get you from skepticism to faith. At the end of the day, Jesus is Lord, or he isn’t. But you are only going to be convinced Jesus is Lord by personally encountering Jesus. There is no path to Jesus via science, logic, or philosophy.
You make it sound as if it is only emotion. One could explain feelings of joy or spiritual health as an illusion caused by the brain. You really think there are not logical arguments for Christianity being true? I’m not looking for absolute proofs, I’m looking for practical proofs.
Hi JacksonC -
Emotion is not the same thing as faith, experienced personally and put into practice. A strong fundamentalist background can lead someone to believe that only the strictest inerrancy can provide a foundation. But what did Jesus teach? Putting His teachings into practice–not intellectual assent to inerrancy–is the foundation that protects the house during the storm. (Matthew 7:24-27)
There are many ways to put His teachings into practice. You could volunteer at a homeless shelter, or in Big Brothers/Big Sisters, or Habitat for Humanity. You could work in your church’s nursery – always an understaffed operation. I’m just scratching the surface here; there are thousands of ways to put the Sermon of the Mount into practice.
My wife and I visit a maximum security prison every Tuesday to have fellowship and Scripture study time with men who need friendship and encouragement. I always feel like I get more from interacting with the men than I give.
Inerrancy is no shelter, as you have discovered. Better to build your house on the rock in the way Jesus taught.
Continuing to pray for you…
Chris Falter
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Jackson,
Christianity is about God. We believe in God and not man’s explanations of God.
We believe in God because God the Father sent Jesus the Son to die for our sins.
The God Who created the universe, saves us by dying for us, and keeps us firmly in the Love the Spirit does not require a human explanation for why the good news of Jesus Christ is true.
We know that it is, because God is good to us and for us. We should not need reassurance that the Bible is inerrant, when we know that God cares and will make a Way even when there is no human Way, because Jesus is the Way, not the Bible.
Yet you cite Bible verses…
Jesus clearly taught from the Old Testament.
I think there is some variation from individual to individual. I’m sure there must be some people who come to Jesus through logic - - if only because stranger things happen in this world. But fundamentally speaking, the road to Jesus is through the heart, not through processing logic.
I think don’t think it is irrational to believe the Bible is true, and I don’t think reasons for belief are just emotional or experiential. There are good arguments for faith being warranted and for faith being a means of arriving at knowledge.
I think the coherence of the testimony of the transformed lives of Christians across so many cultures, time periods, and historical situations is a powerful witness for Christianity being true.
What I don’t think is useful or productive is making anything other than God’s own character and work the basis of faith. I think Ken Ham has things totally backward when he insists that we first establish that the Bible is true by imposing a bunch of tests of our own creation on it. Then once we have assured ourselves of the Bible’s truth, we are licensed to believe what it says about God. No, we first accept that the Bible is the revelation of the one true God. The Bible’s truth and value flow from from the fact that we believe it is God’s revelation of himself, and we believe God is the source of all truth. Truth starts with the person of God, not the Bible. The Bible does not become God’s revelation because we as humans have established its truth using some outside tests of factuality or historicity or logical necessity.
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I know you addressed this to Chris, but I hope you don’t mind if I butt in earlier with a response since I’m here!
Yes, Jesus did teach from the law and the prophets. We could find places where he says not one jot or tittle can be dropped from the law. We also find him teaching “let the one of you who is without sin cast the first stone” (which left the self-appointed guardians of said law scratching their heads because the law is very clear about what was to be done with adulterers). So when you invoke what Jesus taught, you don’t come away with some sort of simplistic endorsement for the “we must enforce every law” enthusiasts --at least not without ignoring major swaths of New Testament teaching. In fact, what do you think about this teaching that Jesus gave to the ‘doctrinally astute’ of that time? “You search the Scriptures because you think that in them you have eternal life; and it is they that bear witness about me, yet you refuse to come to me that you may have life.” This was from Jesus himself as recorded in John 5:39. What kind of teaching about the Bible do you think this is? I find it interesting, challenging, and not often brought up.
Regarding what some have said here about various paths leading or not leading to Jesus, I’m not as sure about this as some others might be. I think it quite possible that Jesus might use the words of an absolute charlatan and fraud (perhaps some TV preachers?) to get a person at least started down the right track to him. Maybe some come to faith through perceived human wisdom or this or that flaky cause. Maybe they get argued into it in a debate. The main point would be, though, that if that planted seed never takes root into the true foundation of Jesus himself, then it will remain a faith in something or someone else. So if it is the charismatic evangelist who is the only fuel for your faith fires, then your faith is in him rather than in Jesus. Or if it is some particular Genesis 1 interpretation that you make foundational, then your faith again is in human wisdoms rather than in Jesus. All of those things may be an initial hook of interest that God may use to reach us, frail children that we are, but it is always to move us toward that real foundation, not leave us where we were found. Once we have a relationship with Jesus, some of the former props might begin to fall away. And that may not be pleasant to us when it happens. You can continue to find courage and sustenance in Scripture, though! Especially if you read it in the context of having let go of the need to jump through all the hoops of explanatory certainty about every passage. Reading it devotionally as a response and desire to get to know Jesus better, rather than as a debate text prop to wield against skeptics is I think a positive shift.
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Hello, Jackson. I hope you won’t mind if I gently suggest that the words you’ve written here about emotion and illusions caused by the brain do point to a particular issue that causes a lot of unnecessary suffering in the world. The issue I’m thinking of is a rather widespread desire to separate not only science from faith, but to separate logic from emotion.
In Mark 12:28-31, the core of all Jesus’ teachings is presented in this way: " . . . ‘Which commandment is the first of all?’ Jesus answered, ‘The first is, “Hear, O Israel: the Lord our God, the Lord is one; you shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind, and with all your strength.” The second is this, “You shall love your neighbour as yourself.” There is no other commandment greater than these.’"
Yes, I’ve quoted from the Bible because these words happen to express in a timeless and uplifting way what Jesus knew and what Jesus taught us about having a relationship with God. The key is not to choose mind over heart, or strength over soul, but to respect and balance within ourselves these four foundational traits or pillars of our humanity: our heart, our mind, our soul, and our strength.
Each is equally important and valid to the path of faith. If you try to raise any one of these pillars above the other three, you’ll have an imbalanced foundation, and the experience of faith will elude you. When you get the balance right, though, faith kind of pops out inside you like one of those 3D illustrations where you have to right the right balance between focus and non-focus in order to see the 3D picture that’s hiding inside all those simple 2D bits and swirls and simple patterns.
Is Jesus’ idea about balancing these four pillars just a bunch of emotional baloney? Well, no. There’s been an recent avalanche of research in neuroscientific fields that tells us Jesus was absolutely correct to insist that if we want to be happy and healthy (in so far as human beings are able to be happy and healthy) we must learn how to use our hearts wisely and how to use our minds lovingly. Reason alone won’t cut it.
Is it easy to balance these four major pillars? I’m going to have to be honest and say no. If it were easy, we wouldn’t have to struggle so hard to find our way back to our loving God. If it were easy, we wouldn’t have to try so hard each day to be a good neighbour, not only to our friends and families, but to God. But this is the good part! It’s in trying so hard each day to follow Jesus’ two great commandments that we gradually come to love and know ourselves, our neighbours, and our God.
The explanation I’ve given may not sound to you like a logical or practical explanation, but I can assure you that the neuroscience behind living a “two commandment” life is pure science at its very best. To feel love, to feel joy, to feel forgiveness, to feel faith, and to feel the safety of God’s love is not – and cannot be – a simple illusion of the brain. It’s science. It’s neuroscience. It’s quantum physics, chemistry, biology combined with classical physics, chemistry, biology all contained within an exquisite 3-pound universe which is so complex its beauty is almost (though not quite!) indescribable.
You can’t get more practical than this.
It seem to me that if yiu have been brought up with some sort of fundementalist faith it can be very shocking to face up to criticism of the bible.
I have been brought up seeing the bible in a very different way, with a much more dynamic view of inspiration, that although it may be limited by historical circumstances and by people’s cultural situations is still the greatest revelation of wisdom. The bible was written by fallible people with limted knowledge in their time and place, but the glory of it is that the Holy Spirit can help us see new things related to it in then present.
So do not despair at the challenges of seeing scripture in new ways.
The Old Testament is full of difficulties of historical accuracy etc but the gospels and letters in the New Testament are much closer to the events that occured, with living witnessess who gave their testimony to what they saw and then tried to pass on the amazinng truth of what they had found in Jesus. We may not be able to trust the OT completely but we can trust the NT much more!
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4 posts were split to a new topic: Epistemology, apologetics, “feel-good religion,” and evolutionary creationism
I see that Biologos has removed my responses.
Christy split your responses into a new, independent thread. (link above)
JacksonC
I fully understand what you are going through. I became an atheist as a result of the YEC message many years ago. The Lord created me to be a scientist and what YEC taught simply did not make sense. No other Christian pathway was presented…either YEC or atheism is their message. I truly believed science had disproved God based on that message…until I realized science can’t disprove God as He is not falsifiable.
The Holy Spirit grabbed hold of me. My journey to belief was awful as my world turned upside down. There were days where I would literally hide under a blanket in emotional turmoil and depression. There is a physical reaction to having deeply held beliefs overturned.
I can assure you that it does get better, and in fact, faith strengthens and gets deeper as you learn correct information about Creation. The more you seek through learning, the more He will touch you and the faith returns. What you are giving up is the lie that YEC must be correct for the Bible and the Christian faith to exist. YEC leaders heavily market that point to keep an audience in light of the overwhelming scientific information that is in opposition to their science teachings.
Accepting truth about nature, as we discover through science, does not mean that Jesus is not our Savior. Recognizing that beliefs on Genesis vary greatly, as held by faithful and dedicated Christians, should help to quiet those depressed and confused feelings. Diverse views on Genesis does not bother God. It keeps us talking about Him. He will meet you where you are and He isn’t concerned with you questioning. Don’t give up. We will be praying for you.
Dana
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Thanks for sharing your wonderful story, Dana.
@JacksonC - Here’s another testimony you might find interesting. Mario Russo refers to himself as a “recovering answer addict.”
Grace and peace,
Chris Falter
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It occurs to me to ask, has there been any time in Christian history when everybody agreed on exactly how to interpret the Bible?
I doubt it. We like to think of our current circumstances as unique, maybe even think as though if Darwin never wrote his book, we wouldn’t have anything to argue about, but having to evaluate the truth of things other people claim—maybe even good people we are close to—is a problem as old as the Bible itself (at least!).
@JacksonC, your struggles are real. Not wanting to keep living the way you have been is a serious sign that something’s wrong. But how do you want to live? If you had all the material things you wanted, would that make you happy? Or if someone was always there to cheer you up, would that be happiness? Or is there work you would have to do on yourself, so that you become the type of person who could fully enjoy these situations?
That’s a lot of work to, and working on yourself is usually the hardest kind of work there is. Not only that, it’s invisible, so it can feel like you’re not being productive at all. It’s overwhelming and confusing and depressing to stare at a mountain in your path and think about climbing it.
But here’s the thing, the big secret: once you do that work, once you weed and grow your garden, it’s yours. You don’t need money or entertainment to be happy. Instead, you have enough to share with others when they need it.
Religious teachings are our guidebooks to the really hard work we have to do. Nobody is saved because they believe in a worldwide flood.
Don’t give up. What kind of world do you want to live in?
*Disclaimer: I am just an internet commentator. I am not licensed or qualified to treat depression. If above advice makes things worse instead of better, disregard and seek professional help.
Please slow down and take a deep breath. Remember that there is no proof there is a God and no proof there is not a God. All we humans get to choose if we believe in God and what we decide to believe about our God. Is there conflicting data out there? Absolutely! Of the thousands of Christian denomination that exist, each has its own “interpretations” of the Bible and dogma. Obviously some of them have to be “wrong” (incorrect) because they all don’t agree on every detail. So where does that leave you (and the rest of us)? You get to choose on the exact details about what the Bible says and what you want to believe. Many of us will “latch on to” a particular church/denomination and follow the teachings and interpretations we find there. That is one way to do it. We all are much more comfortable worshiping with others who accept God, Jesus and the Bible along the same lines as we do.
Please don’t go crazy feeling you have to have every answer fit every possible explanation that you can find. I’m guessing you will be happiest and most fulfilled establishing your own spiritual relationship with God and Jesus and ignore all the others that are all 100% certain they have the right answers.
Beaglelady is right. This is the most important and alarming thing by far at this point. However much cognitive distress this issue makes you feel, it should not be hitting you this hard. Deal with the suicidal feelings first, and then work on everything else later. Please contact your pastor, your doctor, your counselor, a friend or loved one, and let them know how you are feeling and let them help you get professional help.
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I just want to know why Christianity is the truth, since I previously based it on intelligent design.
I realised lately that arguments for Christianity go into two camps: one is from nature, and the other is from logic. You have been in the nature camp all along and you haven’t yet discovered the beauty and truth found in the ‘logic’ camp, which is far greater and more exciting! Read Mere Christianity by CS Lewis. I think that is one of the best arguments from logic that I know. Then tackle Miracles also by CSL. He was an evolutionist himself, but he doesn’t argue from nature.
Personally, the ‘nature’ based arguments for God have never attracted me, and I was never brought up to believe in any ‘design’ argument. In fact, I find these arguments incredibly dull … that is compared to logic based arguments.
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