Flat-earth obsessions apparently on the rise

It is an interesting phenomenon, for sure. I don’t think that it has anything to do with intelligence, or access to information, or even with being “gullible.”

There is something about the psychology of someone who entertains a flat-earth conspiracy theory (yes, it is a conspiracy theory). Maybe they want to have the feeling of one-upping others by having secret knowledge about something, or they distrust authorities (government, scientific consensus). Or maybe they enjoy the challenge of making an argument for something wholly unsupportable.

It is not very far removed from insisting that the earth is 6000 years old.

2 Likes

…and for that matter (in the eyes of some - including some here) … not that far removed from believing a dead man rose from the grave. I’m not saying I think that way, but it does behoove us to remember that we are not only “observers” in this, but also “the observed.”

2 Likes

Oh that TOTALLY Photoshopped! :laughing:

2 Likes

That relates to some things I was reading about the “post-truth” culture. While Zacharias has had a little trouble with truth claims himself, this article on his website is interesting, and in it the author states:

“We want to define reality as we see fit, sometimes moment-by-moment. Our culture seems to have embraced confusion as a virtue and shunned certainty as a sin. And why? Because certainty based on objective facts stands in the way of a today’s highest ideal: unfettered individual autonomy.” https://www.rzim.org/read/rzim-global/the-river-and-the-land-finding-a-foundation-in-a-post-truth-culture

Interesting world we live in.

4 Likes

If the Earth really is flat and contained in a dome then we would have to conclude that someone built it. I think that is a big draw for some Flat Earthers.

Other people seem strongly attracted to catching “the government” or “they” in grand lies. For example, there are conspiracy theories dealing with the size of continents and the reality of altitudes. Think of the sovereign citizen movement cranked up to 11.

You are correct. The central claim of Christianity does seem ridiculous to many. I think this may be a little different, though. Flat-earthers seem willfully ignorant of abundant evidence, while we have no evidence that Jesus wasn’t resurrected.

2 Likes

Well yes … and for that matter we have no evidence that Caesar or Shakespeare, or Jimmy Hoffa weren’t resurrected either. But yes - I’m with you; we do have positive evidence towards his resurrection (totally lacking in the case of the others I mention) that we are willing to accept. So I do agree that there is more going for a resurrection (and less against it) than is the case (both ways) for a flat earth.

I posted something back in March about a recent documentary on flat earther’s.

One of the points made by someone in the film (who’s not a flat earther) is that people who fall into such groups like this are not so much uneducated as opposed to “mis-educated.” And if you watch it, you’ll see from this documentary that a number of these folks certainly seem to be otherwise intelligent enough…they have jobs in IT and so forth.

We see something similar on both sides of our politics these days. Ten years or so ago, there was a startling percentage of democratic voters who were 9-11 truthers and/or believed that the Bush administration had actively blown up the levees in New Orleans after hurricane Katrina. And then a few years later there was the whole crown on the right who were convinced that Obama had been born in Kenya. All of it with no supporting evidence whatsoever.

Ultimately there’s something about (a) belonging to a group w/ some underlying meaning, and (b) this idea that “we” and we alone are the keepers of The Truth.

Anyhoo, here’s a cut & paste of my post on the documentary from back in March…

For those of you w/ Netflix accounts, there’s a documentary recently added to their lineup — “Behind the Curve,” directed by a Daniel Clark. Looks like it’s also available on Amazon Prime & iTunes. I stumbled upon it this past weekend, and was fascinated by it in a “wreck on the side of the road that you just can’t pull your eyes away from” kind of way. Once I started watching it, I just couldn’t stop.

The film chronicles the present-day flat earth movement, and the director does a remarkably even-handed job of allowing the various flat earth advocates he interviews to present their perspectives w/o subjecting them to ridicule. (If you’re familiar w/ the documentary filmmaker Erroll Morris, he often takes a similar approach…letting the eccentric folks that he interviews have their eccentricities speak for themselves, without additional comment or input.)

The principal flat earth advocate in the film is a guy from the Seattle area named Sargent. If you watch the trailer below he’s the middle-aged guy wearing cargo shorts, a cap & a black t-shirt…one gathers from the documentary that this appears to be what Mr. Sargent wears every day of his life. And he may or may not still live w/ his mom; I couldn’t quite tell. He does podcasts & the YouTube channel thing, and is one of the flat earth movement’s most influential figures. The camera crew follows Sargent to a prime viewing spot for the solar eclipse back about 18 months ago (in one of the film’s more ironic moments), and also to the International Flat Earth Convention (or whatever it was officially called) in Raleigh, NC a couple years back.

As an aside, I live in Raleigh, and I remember this thing making the local news back when it happened. I have no idea how that convention ended up here, other than they apparently must’ve gotten a really good rate at the Embassy Suites.

On the counterpoint side are a couple physicists, a couple psychiatrists & astronaut Scott Kelly. You may recall that the latter spent a year on the International Space Station, and thus has personally orbited the earth more than a few times, with a window to look out of while he was doing so.

The flat earth movement appears more broadly to be a haven for conspiracy theory types of multiple stripes — anti-vaxxers, 9/11 truthers, anti-CIA tin foil hat wearers, as well as a variant of Young Earth Creationism, though without an apparent attachment of the latter to the sort of fundamentalist Christianity with which most of us are familiar. But familiarly, there’s a suspicion of “science” and “scientists” as either (a) those who blindly accept whatever they’ve been told along the way, or (b) part of some nefarious global conspiracy…albeit one whose presumptive end-game goals are never quite articulated.

A few of the flat earther’s discuss the kinds of experiments that they need to do to prove their claim, including one involving a laser (SPOILER ALERT…the laser “experiment” does not confirm that the earth is flat, in spite of multiple do-over’s; this leads to compete exasperation on the part of the guy running the laser).

I found it also surprising that there are such pronounced rifts within the flat earth community. There’s another podcaster/YouTuber who really has it in for this Sargent guy, and Sargent’s maybe Platonic/maybe not quasi-girlfriend (the cute redhead in the trailer) is another podcaster who is a rather polarizing figure among flat earther’s. Some of the conflict clearly revolves around (pun intended) influence & power within the community, but there’s also an element of orthodoxy involved, with often zero tolerance for anyone who deviates from accepted flat earth purity. And anyone who does deviate in some fashion risks being labeled an apostate, or worse, a planted CIA operative. For such a fringe group, with such a fringe foundational position, the flat earther’s appear to keep their tent pretty small.

Even though there are presumably very few flat earther’s within North American Christian YEC-ism — for practical purposes, I’ll assume that number is zero — there are unmistakable parallels. One is left asking the question, “Why do people like this believe what they believe?”…especially w/ regards to:

(a) a sincere conviction that “we” — and only “we” — are the keepers of The Truth, ie, this special knowledge which everyone else could possess, too, if they would only remove the scales from their own eyes,

(b) an insistence upon adherence to accepted group orthodoxy,

(c) a rigid adherence to their position in spite of the complete lack of supporting peer-reviewed scientific evidence,

(d) a mistrust of said peer-reviewed conventional science, and of those who engage in such work,

(e) as a corollary to both of the above, an inexplicable optimism that it’s simply a matter of time before they themselves pull off the experiment or observation that will definitively prove their claims to the world, and

(f) an inability to rethink one’s underlying position when such experimental attempts fail so spectacularly.

Three stars. Definitely worth a view.

Link, which has the trailer imbedded…

https://www.behindthecurvefilm.com

2 Likes

How far removed? Not very …

1 Like

I read this post before I joined the forum. I remember thinking about how interesting and perceptive it was.

Thanks for the reminder.

2 Likes

My experience with flatearthers is that they are very proud of their special knowledge. They take great pride in believing the Bible as others deny what it says.

They are rarely open to honest discussion, something like an extreme version of the KJV-only crowd and young earthers.

2 Likes

I think there are many ways in which Christians can be susceptible to thinking that we have “special knowledge” or at least an interpretation that’s “more correct” than others, and therefore are more faithful to God. Humility is a lot harder.

1 Like

I call this the ‘Homo Superior Fallacy’; reasoning errors that lead one to think that a conclusion they have come to or a discover they have made or action they have taken/not taken has advanced them to a position of superiority over those who do not believe/act as they do.

For Flat Earthers, I would presume such superiority would be derived from the belief that they have attained some kind of enlightenment for they alone recognise that the prevailing cosmological emperor has no clothes. Is that fair?

Ironically, my Calvinist brothers and sisters are sometimes guilty of the same fallacy in discussion around Reformed Theology even though we are taught to believe that any theological conclusion we might come to is as a result of the Spirit’s gracious work in our lives! Doh! :man_facepalming:

Gosh, you’re not wrong there!

2 Likes

I guess for me I don’t pay it any attention. I think it’s more of a giant joke that maybe a handful of people buy into. It won’t ever be predominant, and is referenced to mostly as a joke. Internet polls on topics like this also tend to be trolled more than anything.

I agree it is probably overblown and is a “troll magnet” kind of topic. But I would assume that the fact that Answers in Genesis felt the need to address it directly means it is, at least in a small way, gaining some traction among niche groups, and they’re in a position to hear this from people directly rather than relying on fake polls.

1 Like

I found this article on personality traits that lend to conspiracy theories to be helpful.

Conspiracy Theory Disorder: Understanding Why People Believe (psychcentral.com)

  • Feeling anxious or fearful all the time, for no particular reason
  • Inability to exert control (or feeling unable to control) the situation
  • A need to make sense of complex topics or unrelated events, even with little or no topical expertise or knowledge
  • A strong urge to make connections between a series of unrelated events or behaviors
  • A belief in paranormal explanations for scientific phenomenon
  • An overreliance on cognitive shortcuts, such as illusory correlations, confirmation bias, and hindsight bias
  • Low self-esteem and/or high self-uncertainty
  • A sense of not really belonging to any social group; isolation from others
  • A greater alienation, disengagement, or disaffection from society
  • A belief that the status-quo of society should be valued above all else
2 Likes

Aye Randy, I’m particularly interested in the mental ill-being in this and the aggressive projection and inversion of that. As I can see it in myself from nearly 60 years ago. There’s also, in the case of flat earthism, YECism etc, a deliberately ‘chosen’ aggressive contrariness: ‘If I choose to say this, to believe it, who are you to say otherwise?’. I strain (overreach?) toward self harm even; no matter how much credibility one suffers and because of that, one is validated, one exists; to be abused, disparaged is to exist. Martyrdom complex.

3 Likes

I think we all have some of these potentials. I do find, too, that we have a tendency to blame someone for something that has happened, rather than accept it as just what life is. That’s one thing that worries me a bit about the connection of faith with conspiracy theory–that often, those with faith gravitate to saying God or the Devil orchestrate everything we don’t personally do ourselves. It’s a good place for self examination. It does seem that once we realize that things just happen, we are more apt to empathy with others as we realize we all struggle with the same thing.

3 Likes

Aye Randy. The non-mental ill being issues seem all to be cognitive bias issues that in my case certainly followed on from existential angst and the like. ‘Experts HAH, what do they know!’. Especially when ‘the Bible says’. For me the Bible confirmed (via third party fundamentalists) my worst nightmares: Auschwitz and Hiroshima. Nothing my parents, peers, science, rationality could say could touch that.

1 Like

It’s encouraging that they are fighting a losing war on two fronts.