Fairness and Adam's original sin

Hi Randy,
I enjoy my discussions with you, as well! :slight_smile:

Yes, this question about people who have never heard the Gospel was one of the main ones I had before I became a believer. I asked this question of many friends in a University Christian group I was visiting as a seeker.

While we cannot know how God reaches those who have not have not had access to the Gospel, we do know that our God is completely loving and completely just. Thus, we can assume that God must judge people based on the knowledge that they do have, what little knowledge that might be.

To specifically address a couple examples you mention, I believe that children in the womb are innocent and go directly to heaven when they die, as do newborn babies. This is why David expected to see his deceased child again in heaven:

2 Samuel 12

22 He answered, “While the child was still alive, I fasted and wept. I thought, ‘Who knows? The Lord may be gracious to me and let the child live.’ 23 But now that he is dead, why should I go on fasting? Can I bring him back again? I will go to him, but he will not return to me.”

By the way, I have a strong preference for believers baptism, rather than infant baptism, because I believe that Faith saves, not any type of Work.

I have also read about and heard testimonies from people who have been saved through dreams and visions in places where they are isolated from the Gospel. Thus, God is completely able to draw to Himself all people who would call on His name and believe in Him.

Hebrews 11 also talks about how people who knew God before Jesus came to earth were also saved by their faith in God. They believed that God had a future heavenly city prepared for them:

13 All these people were still living by faith when they died. They did not receive the things promised; they only saw them and welcomed them from a distance, admitting that they were foreigners and strangers on earth. 14 People who say such things show that they are looking for a country of their own. 15 If they had been thinking of the country they had left, they would have had opportunity to return. 16 Instead, they were longing for a better country—a heavenly one. Therefore God is not ashamed to be called their God, for he has prepared a city for them.

On the other Original Sin thread, Mi Krumm posted this, which I agreed with. Note that Mi Krumm states on this thread that he does not believe in Original Sin. However, I think that these statements that he made about how free will would fit with God’s sovereignty are true regardless of your belief in or against Original Sin, but they could help us come to terms with the concept of how God handles our sin.

You also asked

You could ask that question even in the absence of the concept of Original Sin. In the same way, we could ask: Couldn’t God make people who would not be capable of sin? Couldn’t God make us all have faith, believe and follow Him? However, He does not compel our obedience. And for some reason, all people do sin. I do not see the Christian faith as being any more or less acceptable in the presence or absence of the concept of Original Sin. Yet, somehow the Gospel tells me the truth about humanity and about myself. I sin, and all of humanity sins. It is somewhat mysterious as to when and why that became true, but somehow it is true. Thus, I affirm the concept of Original Sin. Others would like to think about it in a different way. Saying that God holds us accountable for our own Sin and requires belief in Jesus’s death and resurrection (with or without believe in original sin) raises those same questions. Calling that concept “original sin” is not any more abhorrent than saying that we all need a sacrifice for the sins that we ourselves have committed.

“all have sinned” (Romans 3:23)
“there is no one righteous” (Romans 3:12, Psalms 14:3; Psalms 53:3; Ecclesiastes 7:20)

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