Evolution and the Role of Theodicy

A computer game runs in a machine, and thus you are identifying the machine as God. I think the metaphor fits far better if the universe and it natural laws are the machine and God is the hardware/software engineer who designed both machine and the game.

God also runs the machine. That still leaves the the question, Is God good? I would say that if the machine or the universe is good, then God is good.

Also God can make us to be real even if we live in a machine (the universe), because the machine is real. Humans are real and responsible. There is no question about this in my opinion.

A well made machine runs itself. In the case of the universe, the machine supports life and thus while the universe and life are both good, the possibility of evil is a part of it. The question is, what justifies doing this. What is a good reason for the creation of life, such that the one who does it can be called good? I believe there is only one motivation that works.

If you mean real as opposed to merely a dream or figment of God’s imagination, then quite agree. The automation of natural law gives us that kind of independent reality. It makes it possible for us to be alive, conscious, and responsible, rather than just characters/npcs whose lives are written by someone else.

What would the motivation be (that works – the good reason for creating life)?

In a way, but it seems like “natural law” and “independent reality” need some definition. For example, evolution might be called “automated” and a “natural law” (probably short of the laws of thermodynamics, selection processes seem to be a primary feature in the complexity of life on earth). Yet evolution, in the most “unguided” sense, could easily have made a “master race” with some sort of borg-ish assimilative bee-hive mentality. … maybe worker bees are happy serving the queen.

Love.

The process of life is one of self-organization. When you create life you are trying to get something to make its own choices, learn things for itself and do things for its own reasons. This makes no sense when what you are doing is creating a tool for a specific function. Thus this is NOT a good reason for creating life. So the first consideration is that creating life only makes sense if you want something as an end in itself rather than a means to an end. This rules out the vast majority of motivations as even sensible let alone moral.

Living things can only learn and develop when there is failure, suffering and death. So how do you justify creating life when such things are a part of it. More than once I have heard the complaint, mostly by atheists that nobody gave them the choice whether to exist or not. This is of course an impossibility. How can you ask something whether they want to exist unless they already exist and are capable of answering for themselves. But it still raised the question of how one can possibly justify imposing suffering and death on others without their consent? How in the world can this ever be a moral thing to do. For all those motivations by which creating life is not even sensible, this consideration make them all immoral as well.

What is left? What motivation works with creating something as an end in itself and also balances out the suffering which is an inherent part of life? There is only one thing I can think of, and that is love – that is when you are ready to embrace them with comfort for what they have to endure, so that you can give of yourself and share all you are and have with them.

That could still be the result if we do not value independence and self-determination enough. But whose fault would that be but our own. So the point is that we are not a dream or figment of someone’s imagination and that is because we have a separate existence in the laws of nature, which operate according to fixed mathematical laws rather than the whim of a dreamer.

Nobody made the claim that our freedom of will is absolute or inviolable. Quite the contrary, it is highly variable and fragile. We can choose to throw away what we have or expand it by developing our potentialities and becoming more aware of the possibilities. I for one will fight against any borg or nazis who try to replace life with machines under their control, while fighting for the greater liberation of human potential for more creativity, awareness and opportunity. Therein lies the true source of wealth.

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I see. Sort of like on the human scale, the decision to have a kid – though it isn’t always a matter that is exactly planned. Kids will sometimes ask “why was I ever born”. It is often over a rather petty argument over a toy or a rule, but sometimes it is because of genuine suffering. At those moments, it is wise to say “because I wanted you”. When our children are suffering, we do feel for them, even when they suffer for reasons of their own making.

It is a gift to have life; we can make use of it and show some appreciation for that chance as opportunity arises, be sullen and ungrateful about it all and fold our hands and do nothing, or we can abuse it and even others along the way. In the end, we all have to cross the great river. Yet still, for the time we have, it would be well to remember that it is a gift.

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