“I thought my answer was clear enough.” … “My opinion has been clear all along.” … “I’ve been very clear in my answer.” … “So I’ve been clear”. – Eddie
Funny that, I thought Christy’s answer was much clearer and simpler.
My question was certainly not if you believed in ‘design in nature.’ Everybody knows you believe that as a man of faith, as a self-professed ‘theologian.’ My question to you was a reiteration of your own question about any evidence you may know of for “what God has to do with the evolutionary process.” You didn’t provide any evidence, certainly not any scientific evidence, just possible ‘ideas’.
You offered two ‘hypotheses’ about “ways in which God could guarantee particular results of the evolutionary process,” but included no specifics of when, where, in what or how the supposed ‘interventions’ have taken place or even if they could be studied ‘scientifically.’ Let’s at least be clear that no scientific evidence was offered for either ‘intervention’ or ‘front-loading’. Do you grant that, Eddie?
You boldly contend that “God makes sure of evolutionary outcomes,” but offer no specific evidence of how. Where’s the science backing up your position? Intelligent Design theory provides nothing to back up such a contention. ‘Zap!’ and ‘Poof!’ are not legitimate answers. Again, please be specific, because it sounds like that is what you’re asking others to do here, i.e. people you call ‘TE/EC biologists’. Otherwise, it would just sound hypocritical.
“I would be quite willing to go with front-loading, or intervention, or a combination.”
Ok, then please take a position that you actually believe (as a ‘betting man’ or as a non-gambler) and elaborate on it clearly and specifically here at BioLogos instead of just criticising others for their position. A new thread would be most appropriate for this with you as its author, since you are the one making the claims beyond what BioLogos contributors have made. This would require providing biological evidence of God’s ‘intervention(s)’ or ‘guidance’ of evolution in natural history. Surely many of us here (and also, those who have not yet visited BioLogos) would welcome such evidence that you seem to believe you can provide that ‘TE/EC biologists’ have not or cannot. Do you know something concrete and empirical about this that we don’t?
“the vast majority of them incline strongly against the view that he [sic] ever intervenes (in evolution, I mean).”
Perhaps ‘they’ just don’t have strong empirical evidence for the supposed ‘interventions’ you are asking for? And frankly, I don’t see how one could ever find empirical evidence of ‘front loading.’ Iow, Christy’s “I don’t know.” I also liked her response about “ways of trying to understand something that is at its essence not something you can pin down.”
“…convince the Christian that if evolution is a real natural process, God is in charge of its operations and its results.”
That position (aside from the question-begging ‘if’) is typically called ‘theistic evolution’ or ‘evolutionary creation.’ It is the mainstream view of Abrahamic theists who accept limited and possible evolutionary theories (e.g. adaptation, natural ‘selection,’ mutation and drift, epigenetics, symbiogenesis, horizontal DNA transfer, etc.) about natural history. It doesn’t require movement ‘leaders’ or ‘activists’ since it is simply the best science/faith synthesis regarding evolution currently on offer.
It thus seems that you have not gone a single step further than BioLogos already has, Eddie, on the main question that animates you in expressing such harsh (“philosophically and theologically incompetent”, “intellectually vacuous”, etc.) disagreement here: “what God has to do with the evolutionary process.” At that point, you just jump the shark into IDism, an ideology that many, if not most people who hold to TE rightfully reject. Nevertheless, already Abrahamic theists think “God is in charge” theologically speaking, even if not (always?) as a divine dictator.
“if a BioLogos leader will ever make a theological statement regarding God’s control over the results of evolution”
So, now you’re asking (actually, it sounds more like demanding) BioLogos for a ‘theological statement,’ rather than a ‘scientific statement’ regarding evolution? You might want to go read BioLogos’ Questions pages, Eddie. Perhaps the BioLogos synthesis is less compartmentalising than your considerable intellect allows you to see.
And like Christy, “I don’t assume that someone not giving a ‘straight answer’ is hiding their true opinions.” Openly I admit I haven’t a clue how God ‘guides’ or ‘intervenes’ in biological evolution or “what God has to do with the evolutionary process.” And frankly, I also agree with Christy when she said “I think you are posing questions that don’t have definitive answers”, while insisting that BioLogos provide ‘definitive answers’ to satisfy you.
It does seem that somehow I and quite a few others at BioLogos value freedom of choice in nature and character more than you, Eddie. It may simply be that you fall on the more ‘deterministic’ or ‘controlling’ side of the theological spectrum. (Some IDists, for example, are basically committed to ideological occassionalism.)
The last words here I give to Christy because she expressed them so well:
“It’s enough for me to hear someone say they believe God is intimately involved in the ongoing running of the universe, that he has a purpose and a plan for creation, and that miracles happen. I believe all those things and I have heard them repeated plenty at BioLogos.”
If this is a Christian site, please excuse my heretical blasphemy. I mean no harm.