That is not so ridiculous as it seems.
As the Earth spins on its axis, it creates a bulge around the equator. When polar icecaps melt and become water, that water flows from the poles to the equatorial bulge. This creates a massive redistribution of mass which weighs down on the tectonic plates. It is quite possible that this change increases the number of earthquakes. The problem comes into determining whether one particular earthquake was caused by this massive redistribution of mass.
"I experienced my first earthquake in NJ,â Christina Amira Khalil, wrote Friday in a now-deleted post on X. âWe never get earthquakes. The climate crisis is real.â
Feel free to cite the scientific evidence showing this statement is reasonable.
Vinnie
Something I appreciate about Dr. Michael Heiser is how he showed that just a couple of themes that start in Genesis make sense out of vast sections of both testaments that people tend to shrug at because we canât see how they fit.
I remember a paper that put forth the argument that the legalist version of Judaism can be traced to Ezra/Nehemiah and their penchant for purity, and the later Hasmonean continuance of that. There was an argument against some scholar who had identified the Exile as the source of that legalism.
I wish I could find the paper I read a couple of years ago that put forth an impressive argument that the development of life furthered and maintained the subduction cycles, which in turn encourage life, and around it goes.
Not just the volcanoes; the Cascadia zone is home to megaquakes that sometimes have made the San Andreas complex seem tame by comparison â and some scientists say that the next âBig Oneâ here could rival New Madrid and Alaska with a potential for a 9.2 quake.
And based on some things that were learned from the Mount St. Helens situation, it appears likely that a 9.2 quake could set off several of the volcanoes.
Yeah, I guess us godless New Englanders had it coming! Now if we saw an eclipse veer from its pre-determined path due to upping our churchgoing numbers, that would be something.
If I were to guess, it may have something to do with carbonate deposits (e.g. chalk) and how those melt once subducted.
Not unlike the thrust faults that produce so many earthquakes and tsunamis in Japan.
Without venturing too far into Verbotenland, science in general has been a part of US politics for a long time. A 1963 book that delved into long standing anti-intellectualism in the US won the Pulitzer prize.
The wiki page has this analysis:
The democratization of knowledge really grabs my attention. I see a lot of that in US culture, what was coined as âalternate factsâ not too far in the past.
I recall it being more than that, something about organic matter in subducted material, which increases the water that can be held, and water in the mantle makes the magma more ductile.
Our situation is complex; there are thrust faults, transverse faults, and subduction all in an area about the size of Idaho, due to a tectonic plate that isnât exactly solid, which means the pieces move slightly differently until they all lock up. I found it fascinating in geology that the absence of earthquakes is a sign of coming rupture; when the pieces of the Juan de Fuca plate are moving slightly differently it results in small quakes, but when they lock up the quakes stop â and when those quakes stop it means all the pressure is on the Cascadia Megathrust Fault which is trying to move east â which it would do at about 8 cm/yr if I recall correctly since its western edges are rifts over a spreading center. So when the CMF lets loose, so do all the smaller faults that locked up: the CMF moving gives all the smaller faults room to do the same, all within a period of minutes.
In a couple of million years the entire Juan de Fuca plate, with its rift zone (spreading center) will all pass beneath the North American plate with potentially interesting results. Meanwhile seismologists and volcanologists have made good use of the incredible possibilities deriving from GPS systems; with hundreds of GPS units both alone and in packages with other instruments they can measure ground deformation including horizontal and vertical movements (which interestingly led to the discovery of âslow-motionâ quakes that barely register on seismographs) â so much more helpful than the tiltmeters and other devices available when I wrote my volcanology term paper on the Three Sisters complex in Oregon!
One thing that has been discovered is somewhat comforting to me: when the Big One hits, the hypocenter will most likely be north offshore from Seattle or south offshore from Coos Bay â Iâm in the quiet middle section.
On the other hand, the quake center in British Columbia expects the quake to last around seven minutes, which is terrifying.
This just baffles me because when I was growing up anyone with an advanced degree was respected, whether it was engineers, teachers, clergy, or others. I know it can be traced clear back to the Puritans, but I just canât wrap my mind around it.
Pretty interesting topic. There are biblical examples that would work against presuming that we âknowâ a seismic event had divine approval or initiative attached to it. And then there are certain biblical events â such as the earthquake at the time of the Crucifixion of Jesus â that, while occurring due to natural causes (we know how that works), were also a sign of Godâs response â and taken to mean that (by some at least) at the time.
But in general, reading some sort of judgment into a natural event (earthquakes, COVID or more) â is to be walking on very insecure ground morally and theologically.
Good topic.
If we ignore the reality of natural processes and build in ways and places likely to have problems, then we do experience dramatic natural events as judgements. However, the problems often fall on those who couldnât afford a safer option rather than on those making money by neglecting safety.
Jesus warned against concluding that someone who was caught in a disaster was worse than us. He also mentioned earthquakes as not being good evidence of end times (Mt 24:7 and parallels). Psalm 19 sees the sun as a reminder of the Law. It is true that everyone in the path of the eclipse needs to repent, just like everyone outside the path. If an event prompts self-examination, thatâs probably good, but claiming that something is a sign for someone else is highly problematic.
Regarding eclipses, it is interesting that eclipses are listed alongside earthquakes. Although an eclipse can look terrifying to someone who doesnât understand what it happening, they donât really do anything other than confuse some animals that think its night time in the middle of the day. It is true that lunar eclipses at least are referenced in Biblical judgement imagery, i.e., the moon becoming blood red.
I was fortunate enough to see the total eclipse on Monday last week, it made me think about the mystery underlying the cosmos and the order reflected in it. If only politicians could talk more about that when natural wonders like eclipses happen rather than fear-mongering. You could just as easily use something like an eclipse or comet sighting as an opportunity to talk about something that unites people and talk about the importance of science education, just saying.
Iâve seen both moon and sun become blood red â not due to anything astronomical, but due to smoke from fires (and once because of the polluted air on the U.S. east coast).
True enough, though with comets I would talk about people being able to land on one someday, or steering one to the moon for a water supply (there are comets large enough to cover the lunar surface several meters deep in water) or even landing on (a short-term) one and riding it through its orbit.
Never left the present, Iâm afraid.
As the discussion breaks into threads it is difficult to follow the direction of the groupâs conversation, so I will go back to my original post and reply.
bluebird1 Robin has suggested that there is a Biblical precedent where an earthquake is a sign from God, namely, that which occurred at the time of Jesusâ crucifixion, according to Matthewâs account.
âThen Jesus cried again with a loud voice and breathed his last. At that moment the curtain of the temple was torn in two, from top to bottom. The earth shook, and the rocks were split. The tombs also were opened, and many bodies of the saints who had fallen asleep were raised.â (Mat 27:50-52 NRS)
This statement is problematic. First, none of the other Gospels attest to an earthquake, even though they appear to be following the same source material. (For example, read Matthew 27:50-51 and compare with Mark 15:37-38. Also compare with Luke 23:44-45.) Second, while the Dead Sea Fault runs through Israel and can give rise to earthquakes, there is no geological evidence (to the best of my knowledge) that indicates an earthquake around Jesusâ time. Third, Matthew adds some other material about the resurrection of others besides Jesus at this time which is unknown in the other Gospels.
So, whatâs going on in Matthewâs Gospel? Eschatology is a viewpoint about the end of time understood as both the end of a sequence of time, and the goal to which time strives. Both ideas are contained within the word âEndâ. Such notions were usually expressed in the symbolism of apocalyptic literature, because the means to the end was obscure. By the time of Jesus, apocalyptic language had developed some stock imagery.
The death and resurrection of Jesus meets us as a bizarre event. How do we make sense of it? Matthew exercises a bit of poetic license and inserts some stock apocalyptic images into his narrative to provide a context of Jewish eschatology as the interpretative framework. For Matthew, Jesusâ resurrection is to be understood about belief in the general resurrection at the end of time. St Paul explains it more clearly in 1 Corinthians 15, where Jesus is the firstborn of many siblings. But Matthew is working with narrative as his means of communication, whereas Paul is using prose.
Matthew is not suggesting that the general resurrection has already taken place, although he almost falls into this trap with his suggestive imagery. Not all the saints are raised, just âmanyâ, and the priority of Jesus must be maintained. Part of the problem is Matthewâs dialectical understanding of the death and resurrection. They occur simultaneously. In the words of St Francis, âIt is in dying that we are born to eternal life.â So in Matthewâs narrative, many of the saints are raised on the Friday, but have to tread water until Jesus appears on the Sunday. See Matthew 27:50-53. Matthew gets into a bit of a fix, by mixing historical narrative with theological experience. But we can understand what he is getting at.
For the purpose of our discussion about earthquakes, we need to be able to see that Matthew is exercising poetic license by inserting an earthquake. It is Matthew who is speaking to us through this âearthquakeâ, not God.
Interesting idea.
A point usually missed in the puzzlement at the event itself.
At the risk of repeating a point already made aboveâŠ
Itâs telling that the only eclipses we regard as having potentially Divine portent are those with paths crossing our particular nation⊠I e. the U.S.
Nevermind that eclipses happen with near 18 month regularity somewhere in the world.
But they are not the chosen nation, so they donât count. (Sorry, drifting off into forbidden territoryâŠ)
âLet your conversation be always full of grace, seasoned with salt, so that you may know how to answer everyone.â -Colossians 4:6
This is a place for gracious dialogue about science and faith. Please read our FAQ/Guidelines before posting.
