Maybe that should be your standard footnote for SCRUPULOUS description of the situation.
Is such care really required? I have to wonder.
Are you hesitant to say God uses evaporation and condensation to create rain?
To me, evolution is more an abstraction that links observed processes into a cohesive idea. That may be where part of the problem lies in communicating it to others, as some are not as open to abstractions.
In your question George, a more accurate analogous question might be, " Does God use the water cycle to create rain?" The water cycle does not create rain, but it describes processes that do.
In some ways, evolution is somewhat more like theological ideas like the trinity, in that the trinity is not directly mentioned in the Bible, but is a construct devised to help us understand the nature of God.
Why would I worry about whether Evolution is mentioned in the Bible? The water cycle isn’t mentioned in the bible either. One might argue that Condensation (as dew, and clouds forming over the ocean) might be mentioned.
But this is rather outside of the question here.
I spend some time watching this YouTube channel: FermiLab.
Dr. Don Lincoln does a simply brilliant job of explaining “physics” to the layman. And at the end of many a show, he says: “Remember, physics is Everything!”
He will frequently describe a process or an event in theoretical physics and point out that from a Purist viewpoint, the description is not quite right … but it is close enough to make it understandable to laymen.
So when @jstump tells me he intentionally avoids using a simple description … because technically it is probably not perfect … I have to shake my head a little.
We have Creationists who ask why cats don’t evolve into dogs… and he’s worried about being too specific with the word Evolution?
In contrast, Biblicists are perfectly happy with the idea that God made humans out of dust… SOMEHOW… SOMEWAY… and there’s not a bit of concern about not being able to specify ANY of that.
By all means feel free not to participate when there is something you simply do not want to hear. But if you think this means I will disappear, shut up, and go away, you are gravely mistaken.
So for everyone else out their who is willing to listen…
There is huge difference between physical processes defined by a mathematical equation and a theory like that of evolution which is described by a set of principles. Do we have a mathematical equation for life? LOL No, we do not. And FYI, despite the fact that some of the more ideological biologists have jumped on the idea of equating life to the DNA molecule, life isn’t defined by a chemical formula either. Evolution doesn’t even go near the problem of defining life itself… that is more the purview of abiogenesis, and the more recent scientific work has been looking at metabolism first evolutionary processes that can bring such molecules as RNA and DNA into being.
So… back to the question of the thread, which about God-guided evolution. That definitely describes me. I believe in a God who participates. But with living things that means participation as a shepherd, teacher and parent, for designers and watchmakers are the creators of non-living things. Evolution is a process of life and not a tool for God to use for controlling things.
@jstump, Thank you for your response. You bring up an important issue. Most people on both sides of the evolution issue think that it is clear cut, but ti is not because the discussion brings out many serious relates issues which are not easily resolved.
The issue that you bring up is the nature of knowledge, is it real or not? Some people say that the laws of science existed before the Creation and that God used them to bring order to a primordial Chaos.
Christians believe, backed by the Big Bang, that God created the universe ex nihilo, which means that in the Beginning God created matter, energy, space, and time. It is hard to see how or why the Laws of Physics would exist before time, space, energy, and matter.
We say that we cannot really understand God. That is true, but not the way that it r4eally is. We cannot understand God unless God reveals Godself to us. The way that God reveals Godself to us is through God’s Creation, God’s Spirit, and God’s Word/Jesus Christ. What is clearly beyond our ken is how God designed the universe and created it out of nothing
Evolution is not independent of God or creation, but God did create a system to populate the earth with plants, animals, and humans. God created it so it is real, even though it is not a physical thing, but a system. It should be pointed out that God is real also even though God is not a physical thing.
I am saying that physical things are real, but so are ideas and knowledge, but what do they have in common that gives them reality. My answer is that they are relational, as is God. The universe is composed of embodies relationships in relationship. Science is about the physical relationships in our world… Philosophy is about how we know the relationships that govern our world, and theology is about the spiritual relationships we have with God, others, and ourselves. God is Love.
Another important issue you your comment brought to mind is the nature of evolution in terms of complexity. If people think a evolution as a thing, then there is an assumption that we are in agreement as to what evolution is, but is this true?
Evolution is a complex system. The biggest contribution which Darwin made to the science was to define evolution as Variation, primarily changes in genetics and Natural Selection, which determines, which life forms will survive and thrive. They are entirely separate and interactive, which makes this process foreign to our linear, dualistic thinking.
Sadly science has for the most part concentrated entirely on the Variation or genetic aspect of Evolution, while people like Dawkins and I who are concerned about the philosophical aspect of evolution are more concerned about the Natural Selection aspect, which has not been scientifically verified. This means that most people can confirm that evolution is real because genes and geology confirm common heritage, even though they may disagree about Darwinian selection based constant struggle between members of the same species for limited resources. In other words, life is evil forcing other species and others to fight each other for existence.
Life is not evil. Life is good, and people and members of other species work together within God’s good ecological plan to create o beautiful home for all.
If the Theory of Evolution is true in some important respects, and false in others. is it right or wrong? If in our desire to encourage evangelicals to study science we affirm the way that evolution creates and transmits changes through genes, but neglect to point out failure of survival of the fittest, do we really help them or science?
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