Does God micro-manage life at the atomic level?

(Thomas W. Rogers) #41

Hi Ronald:
There are a number of issues to discuss here:

We, at RealityRandD, regard God as not just the designer, but also the builder, sustainer, maintainer, repairer, and replacer of cells at the appropriate time.

The God of the Bible is also the God highly recognized by the Governments of the four nations we are addressing: The USA, the UK, Australia, and Canada.

The three 2016 Nobel Prize Winners in Chemistry proved that Super-intelligence (far greater than that of mankind) is essential for assembling molecular machines for our cells. Therefore why would we continue to think that evolution, having no intelligence, could do this brilliant work with atoms?

Another perception often assumed is that God will only make perfect loving actions towards all the people He has created. Throughout the old testament and many examples in the New, we see His actions against the enemies of His children who love Him, until they drift away and start worshiping something else. We see many of our countrymen who worship fame, power, and fortune, leaving Him out. How long should He tolerate this? He is a father who believes in discipline, wouldn’t you agree?

Also, if we individually abuse the temple He has built for us to live in here on Earth, by consuming too much alcohol, drugs, junk foods, etc. and don’t provide the nutritious foods He makes for us, there probably won’t be enough of the 60 different elemental atoms in our digestive system for Him to build into perfect cells.

Also, if we don’t appreciate or show any gratitude for all the work He performs for us, why should He care much about us, especially if we give something else the credit for doing all the work? But He still continues to make food for us.

As for God mimicing natural processes, I believe you have reversed the order. Biomimicry is science trying to duplicate brilliant things designed and built by Him.

David was conceived in sin because his parents were sinful. But God did “Knit him together in his mother’s womb.”

The vast majority of the atoms we are made with come from “the dust” i.e. “the land”. There is no cell-building machinery in the land itself, right?

What is the second law of thermodynamics? It works opposite to what is supposed to happen by evolution, i.e. all things tend to deteriorate over time, not improve.

Do you sense the symptoms growing stronger towards the promised great tribulation?

As in the old testament, the more we creatures lose our respect for our Creator and His wise advice, the deeper our troubles become. As it is said, “If we do not learn from our history, we are bound to repeat it.”

(Thomas W. Rogers) #42

Unfortunately, I don’t have another thirty years to explain all the research, nor is there space here to allow it. However, if you are really interested, for $4.99 you can obtain a Kindle copy and get many details of the new life-science of atomic biology there.


So you can’t even explain your research; instead you’d have to duplicate it. (Note that you could probably go on for 30 years here if you wanted.)

Look at all the authors who go on book tours to promote their books. They provide review copies to interested parties. (You could send one to BioLogos.) Book reviews are published, and the authors often make excerpts available to all. Could it be that you merely want to hawk your book?

(Ronald Myers) #44

This is not true nor are these institutions concerned with theological truth and for that matter contradicts assertions you have made else where in this discussion. With this tenuous grip on reality and logic I am not moved to spend the $4.99 and the time to read you book nor to continue this discussion. Love the Lord your God with all your heart, soul and mind.

(Thomas W. Rogers) #45

In the US: “In God We Trust”; “One Nation Under God”; “God Bless America” Not the God of the Bible?

In the UK: “God Save Our Gracious Queen” Not the God of the Bible?

In Australia: “The people…humbly relying on the blessing of Almighty God…” Not the God of the Bible?

In Canada: “Whereas Canada is founded upon principles that recognize the supremacy of God and the rule of law…” Not the God of the Bible?

What God do you think these governments are recognizing, Ronald?

I agree that some elected members show little respect for the God of their government, hence the predominance of moral slide into greed, broken promises, falsehoods, resulting in disrespect, corruption, etc., but fortunately not by all members.

Honor shows through from many dedicated representatives and government employees.

Unfortunately, the news media generally likes to focus more on the trouble-makers.

(Thomas W. Rogers) #46

Hi Beaglelady:
Through this thread I have outlined many of the results of our research, but it seems I have not made it clear enough for you.

I will be speaking with Biologos and other Christians-in-Science groups to endeavor to develop one new science to replace “Evolution-only” as the taught cause of life.

(Thomas W. Rogers) #47

We do have positive reviews by PhDs and many positive responses to our “Science Agreeables” sheet.

We have been interviewed on TV, radio, and print media, and we are just getting started with “Darwin’s Replacement”.

(Mervin Bitikofer) #48

Ronald Reagan? Ronald McDonald? Probably either of those would be closer to the god being paid much more homage in the U.S. instead of the God revealed in Christ. By invoking God’s blessing we are simply joining virtually every other nation all through history who appealed to their gods as the “truer” gods than everybody else’s. What do you think nearly the whole old testament was about? They were just a bit more open in recognizing the status of their gods. Our gods today go by the tricky names of mammon, military might, pleasure, NFL, media fame, corporate power, 2nd amendment, education, science, anti-liberalism, anti-conservatism, respectability … You would have to search down quite a ways to find any homage to God in there. We have hosts of other gods that come first. I shouldn’t be surprised to learn that our modern cultures are the most polytheistic cultures that have ever existed in all recorded history.

(Andrew M. Wolfe) #49

I saw “Mervin_Bitikofer replying…” and I took a sigh of relief and said, “Oh good, the Anabaptist position on this civil religion stuff will be well represented.” :slight_smile: I was not disappointed. :slight_smile: Preach it

(Mervin Bitikofer) #50

Be careful what encouragement you give me. It doesn’t take much. :man_farmer::fire::roll_eyes:

(Thomas W. Rogers) #51

Hi BoltzmannBrain:
Sorry for the delay in response.

My question was not about cells “distinguishing” similar nucleotides, it is about “Building” the very similar bases, A-G-C-T, with the essential Super-intelligent decisions, choices, and precision assembly works with atoms in finding, sorting, selecting, counting, placing, and fastening all the right numbers of the right atoms to build the various codings to make each strand of DNA.

All this essential physical work with atoms for making molecular machines takes far more intelligence than mankind has. This was proven (probably unintentionally) by the three 2016 Nobel Prize Winners in Chemistry who took about 33 years to knit together a few molecular machines that are almost infinitely more simplistic than the simplest molecular machine made for our new cells every day of the week. (Praise the Lord).

I know current textbooks say there are “natural mechanisms” that do this work, but that concept just opens up a much larger problem for evolution, which claims to need no intelligence. Now these “natural mechanisms” have to be constructed and they obviously have to be more intelligent, better equipped, and much faster than the Nobel Prize winners.

See the problems for the unguided process of evolution?


You have thus far only presented strings of scientific buzz words, e.g. nucleus, nuclear membrane, endoplasmic reticulum, mitochondria, nucleolus, RNA, DNA, chromosomes, ribosomes, proteins, vacuole, cytoplasm, protoplasm, golgi, lysosomes. Also, there are strange phrases like science agreeables, whatever that is, and stuff that is just plain wrong. I hope you aren’t trying to take credit for what credentialed scientists have already done, doing the hard work of original research and publishing in scientific journals.

And when challenged, you hint that God is going to get us for not believing you. Such chutzpah.


Do we get to sneak a peek?

(Ronald Myers) #54

I agree . Of the list of possible gods I might add ‘the state’
I was reacting to the assertion that these four governments were in some way theological institutions. They are institutions commissioned and engaged in the task of keeping people in peace and safety in their territories in this world now, albeit imperfectly. Then President Carter having been asked about the efficacy of prayers of non Christians said it wisely that he would leave questions of faith to the theologians.
Was I interpreted?

(Ronald Myers) #55

All of these nations now have freedom of religion and rarely reference God or the Bible in any official document and “in God we Trust” remains there because it has been there for so long. Putting on today would be impossible. and just try to pray publicly in school. And didn’t the ID proponents lose a court battle in the 90’s because ID was considered a religion based ideology?

(Ronald Myers) #56

Classified info


But available for a mere $4.99.


Yes, since the cell has several mechanisms to turn the expected distributions from molecules due to thermodynamics in its favor. The molecules don’t have to be carefully picked since you will have a expected abundancy of each type due to osmosis, charge movement, active transport and others, which will more or less correspond to the average expected distribution of molecules in a given scenario. Even radical ID proponents grant that, although they think that the mechanisms themselves had to be built by a superior inteligence. In fact, I even know researchers who do computational simulations of biological systems and they don’t need anything more than a bunch of molecules behaving according to the laws of physics for their models to reproduce the expected outcomes from biological systems, there is no need for any additional, rational force on that.

(Thomas W. Rogers) #59

“You have thus far only presented strings of scientific buzz words, e.g. nucleus, nuclear membrane, endoplasmic reticulum, mitochondria, nucleolus, RNA, DNA, chromosomes, ribosomes, proteins, vacuole, cytoplasm, protoplasm, golgi, lysosomes. Also, there are strange phrases like science agreeables, whatever that is, and stuff that is just plain wrong. I hope you aren’t trying to take credit for what credentialed scientists have already done, doing the hard work of original research and publishing in scientific journals.”

We have quoted many scholars and have given each one their due credit. We are hoping that our work will help to bring due credit to our Creator also.

The “Science Agreeables” sheet lists a number of what we consider to be irrefutable points of science that all honest scientists should be able to agree upon. This is another step towards uniting Christians-in-science groups to develop one agreed upon Godly science to replace Darwinisms as the taught cause of life.

It is about “Bringing the God of our nations back to our students with a new basic science” as our subtitle says.

Maybe that science will be atomic biology or something similar, but it has to be logical, verifiable, and a well reasoned “Best explanation” for the true cause of life.

A key point we have not discussed is that the atoms we are made of have no life of their own, therefore that has to be added to our new cells once their construction is completed.

I believe that few of us realize how much we are cared for.

I also believe that our Creator, sustainer, and maintainer, could be hurt, disappointed, and maybe even angry when the credit for all this work and care goes to another.

He is very patient up to a point, and He is a jealous God, according to His Word.

The parts of the various groups’ understanding that cannot be agreed upon will have to be left out, thus leaving us with a new science that we can all agree upon to present to education leaders.

If we cannot honestly determine and agree on what is essential to build living cell-parts, cells, and entities, then we may never replace Godless evolution as the taught cause of life.

Our students and scientists will be handicapped by not having accurate information to work with.

(Thomas W. Rogers) #60

I agree, Ronald.

Since Madelyn Murray (O’Hair) and atheist friends managed to persuade the US Supreme Court to ban the Lord’s Prayer from classrooms in 1963, coincidentally, the numbers of teen pregnancies, single parent families, depression cases, alcoholism, drug addictions, STDs, and young suicides have all steadily increased.

All coincidence?

We have been warned in His Word that the great tribulation is coming. It seems to be accelerating on its way here, and we are just trying to slow it down a little, and maybe help a few more souls to “See the Light.”

As my co-author, Dr. G. McLennan, says, “Students already have the inalienable right to be taught Why God is a highly recognized part of Their Government.”

We have 4 chapters regarding God’s role in the governments of the US, the UK, Australia, and Canada.

We also have a chapter regarding why “Some persons dislike their concept of God.”