Does evolutionary theory provide any useful scientific benefit?

Faith & Science Conversation
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Patrick, any guy like Dr. Carson who thinks that Joseph built the pyramids of ancient Egypt in order to store grain is as ignorant of the Bible as he is of history and common sense. The fact that twenty years later he still defends his silly idea and has absolutely no interest in what the ancient Egyptians themselves said about the pyramids, that amazes me. He doesn’t care what the ancient Romans wrote about the pyramids or what any person with common sense could tell him about building a huge monument with minimal storage at enormous expense over many years if the goal is storing this year’s grain harvest. Carson is not just ignorant of a lot of basic science and history. He doesn’t even care to research and examine the evidence before making conclusions. And for a self-described Christian who claims to care about the Bible, he’s certainly not reluctant to ignore what Genesis tells him about the Joseph story. (According to Genesis, because a terrible famine was coming in just seven years, Joseph needed to start storing grain harvests immediately. There was no time for massive building projects which were totally impractical for grain storage. Indeed, we already know how the Egyptians stored their grain—and the pyramids were not for that purpose!)

The Bible says nothing about pyramids. So it seems bizarre that Dr. Carson is making some sort of “I believe the Bible” argument on this basis. I’m amazed that so many fundamentalist Christians are excited about Carson when he (1) is not a Young Earth Creationist, and (2) not only exhibits ignorance of the scriptures but seems downright oblivious to them when making allegedly factual statements roughly like “I believe the Bible when it says that Joseph built the pyramids to store grain.” (He has worded his thoughts variously in the multiple video clips but that’s a reasonable paraphrase of his position.)

Long before his candidacy I also heard him address the OP question which entitles this thread. He answered it in the negative—even though I can’t imagine him being unaware of the importance of evolutionary biology in the curricula of so many of today’s medical schools. Indeed, I know of a number of medical school professors with the word “evolutionary” in their academic titles as well as their course syllabi.

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Hey Molinist.

I don’t recall the story or Joseph ever mentioning pyramids. I assumed the grain would have been in store houses … Why is Carson assuming they were pyramids?

Also Ben Carson is a Seventh Day Adventist: doesn’t that pretty much require you to be a Young Earth Creationist?

Patrick, most people I know say that Carson was a brilliant neurosurgeon. His belief in YEC evidently, didn’t seem to affect that part of his career. Though I have heard him make some pretty odd statements concerning other things.

-Tim

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Yes, sounds about right.

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If me or my family need a neurosurgeon, my inclination would be to go to an experienced neurosurgeon in one of the big research hospitals in NYC. Their religious beliefs would not matter to me in the least unless it somehow detracts from their work.

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Of course you don’t need to use evolutionary theory to do surgery. But if the neurosurgeon doesn’t know that a monkey’s brain and human brain had a common ancestor brain millions of years ago but instead believed that the human and monkey brain appeared instantaneously less than 6000 years ago. I would certainly chose another surgeon.

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It must be nice not to have to worry about infection or antibiotic resistance. Does he think that God creates antibiotic resistance?

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Eddie, the conjecture without knowledge which most amazes me is coming from you. How much “first-hand knowledge” do you have of medical school faculty and what they teach? Have you ever done even some on-line research to find out how important evolutionary biology is within medical school education programs?

I’ve discussed this topic over the years with several medical school professors who I’ve gotten to know in the course of my own speaking and writing on the “disinformation” propaganda of creation science ministries. They’ve often told me of how they incorporate explanations of evolutionary processes into their lectures for medical students. They tell me that evolutionary processes are relevant to every course of the medical school curriculum. Their biggest frustration, in so many cases, is that the students often do not get sufficient training in evolution essentials before their admission to the programs.

Evolutionary biology is so important to modern medicine that medical schools have long tapped their university departments of evolutionary biology to supplement their faculty. Indeed, a biology professor and paleontologist friend of mine known for her textbook on vertebrate anatomy (and advocacy of evolution education for the general public) teaches the Brown University medical school students what they must understand of how evolutionary processes impact human development and anatomy. (But perhaps you would like to notify Dr. Christine Janis and tell her that she erroneously believes that she is teaching physicians-in-training how evolution is important to their craft?)

In fact, Eddie, while you are at it, why don’t you contact the Alpert Medical School at Brown University and tell them that some prankster has posted a “Department of Ecology and Evolutionary Biology” webpage listing 33 Professors of Ecology and Evolutionary Biology who teach at the Medical School. (Be sure to inform the medical school that you have “first hand knowledge” that nobody there or at any other medical school in the United States is teaching medical students about the Theory of Evolution. I’m sure they will be surprised to hear it.)

Here is the web address of the “non-existent” medical professors teaching future doctors what they need to know about evolution:

http://www.brown.edu/academics/medical/about/departments/ecology-and-evolutionary-biology

When I’ve discussed the exponentially growing need for more and more “evolution theory” to be understood by physicians and physicians in training, medical school faculty have brought to my attention the many published journal articles and medical conference panels strategizing about the ways which can best incorporate such foundational knowledge into curricula long before students reach medical school. They tell me that medical schools have already added about as much evolutionary biology topics to their programs as such crowded syllabi can handle. So now they are trying to make sure that medical students have far more knowledge of the Theory of Evolution from their high school and undergraduate programs. (As one medical school dean explained it to me, if future physicians are reaching medical school without extensive understanding of evolution already thoroughly mastered, they are going to feel increasingly “lost” and hopelessly left behind.)

I also suggest that you read about the National Institute of Health’s efforts to better prepare medical students for the evolution topics they will face in medical school:

“The NIH and BSCS have prepared an excellent classroom-tested curriculum supplement on Evolution and Medicine for grades 9-12. It was designed to provide a 2-week curriculum to help students understand major concepts of evolution using dynamic, modern and relevant context of medicine. It is now available free from the NIH. To request a copy of Evolution and Medicine Curriculum Supplement, click on that title. If you then click on “Web Version” there, you can see all materials online.
Also, an excellent informative description, discussion and assessment of this unit can be found in Evolution: Education and Outreach, vol. 4, no. 4, 603-612, an article by Paul Beardsley, et al, titled Evolution and Medicine: An Inquiry-Based High School Curriculum Supplement (October, 2011) EEO4.4.9. Go to the E:E&O Index (see below).”

Another gentleman who has helped me to understand the importance of the Theory of Evolution to medical education is Jonathan Eisen, Professor, Department of Evolution and Ecology and Department of Medical Microbiology, University of California at Davis. I urge you to contact him and tell him that he is misinformed.

Now, if you know of a medical school that is running behind in teaching sufficient evolutionary biology topics to its students, I would recommend:

On Designing Courses in Evolutionary Medicine
Stephen C. Stearns
Department of Ecology and Evolutionary Biology, Yale University, Evo: Edu & Outreach (2011) 4:589-594 DOI 10.1007/s12052-011-0363-0 EEO4.4.7 Published online: 27 October 2011, Springer Science+Business Media, LLC 2011
ABSTRACT: Evolution is a basic science for medicine, as are physics and chemistry. The reason that courses in evolutionary medicine currently exist is that it has only recently been appreciated that an evolutionary viewpoint sheds useful new light on many medical issues to yield insights that can reduce suffering and save lives. Until those insights are incorporated into the premedical and medical curricula, there is some catch-up to do. That is one function that these courses serve. They will probably continue to do so for some years to come.

If you missed that abstract’s explanation, it says that an evolutionary viewpoint sheds useful new light on many medical issues to yield insights that can reduce suffering and save lives.

Eddie, are you at all aware of the crisis facing hospitals as dangerous bacteria evolve faster than antibiotics can be developed to control them? Are you seriously going to tell us that an understanding of evolutionary processes is not **absolutely essential to addressing human suffering and healing sick people succumbing to such dangerous bacteria? Seriously?

Readers have a choice. They can look to medical school deans and professors to explain why the Theory of Evolution is so essential to medical training—or they can accept the uninformed opinions of denialists who hope that evolutionary processes are unimportant to medical science simply because they don’t like the Theory of Evolution—solely because they think that the science conflicts with their favorite religious traditions and the Bible interpretations taught by their church or favorite Young Earth Creationist ministry.

So…why would I want my physician to be well trained in evolutionary processes and the Theory of Evolution? I can give a hundred reasons, among them the fact that a physician who has a strong grasp of evolution has a better understanding of the foe he is fighting when my body is losing in a battle against flesh-eating bacteria. After all, a bacterial foe is not a single entity. It is many generations of evolving populations. One must understand evolution to understand how they are changing and why.

Evolution-denialism is not just frustrating. When it comes to medical science, evolution-denialism can be dangerous to the public health.

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Here is an item in my notes from March 6, 2014 written by Dr. David Levin, professor at the Boston University School of Medicine. Eddie, what do you say to this? From Dr. Levin:

"I gave a lecture yesterday to 500 first-year medical students on the subject of apoptosis (programmed cell death). It’s importance to developmental processes is quite impressive. I presented the embryonic development of the human kidney through the transient pronephros and mesonephros stages to the mature metanephros (kidney). The earlier structures are eliminated by apoptosis as each subsequent structure is formed. The linked video (only about 2 minutes) shows this remarkable process.

Female urogenital development - YouTube

What does this have to do with evolution? This transitional series beautifully recapitulates the evolutionary progression of kidneys. Primitive vertebrates (eg. hagfish) have only the pronephros, whereas fish and amphibians use the mesonephros. Reptiles, birds, and mammals use the metanephros.

pronephros mesonephros and metanephros evolution - Google Search

This is a great example of how evolution builds new structures from existing structures."

So, Eddie, are you ready to retract your previous claims that evolution theory is not taught in medical schools? (You might also consider recanting some of your statements to Patrick?)

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Thank you so much for the great factual post.

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I would never see a YEC surgeon. I couldn’t trust him. His objectivity is compromised.

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How do you pick your doctors?

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I’m surprised that you would make a selection based on fatality rates. They have little correlation with a surgeon’s skills, sometimes they can be negatively correlated to skills. Why? The world’s most highly skilled surgeons are often brought into a case when a patient’s condition is particularly grave and/or there are complications calling for extreme measures and very difficult decisions. Thus, the best cancer surgeons are often called upon to operate on the most advanced and poorly positioned tumors—so they often have high fatality rates.

Of course, if one surgeon has a 2% fatality rate and the other 5%, you surely realize that those statistics (which considered along with all other relevant statistics) are statistically similar. In other words, those are probably minor statistical differences.

My concern in choosing between such surgeons is that the Young Earth Creationist has chosen to ignore evidence, especially the overwhelming consilience of evidence. And that dismissal of consilience would concern me greatly. If he/she is prone to ignore the consilience of evidence in entire fields of science, will he/she ignore the consilience of evidence in the medical science as well? I would want to know. (If he/she promised to always follow accepted standards of quality of care and his/her peers concur based upon their own observations of his/her surgical work, then I might be inclined to accept that his/her views on science sometimes showed cognitive dissonance but were not obstructive to his/her medical judgments.)

In any case, do you agree that many of the least skilled surgeons may have the very lowest fatality percentages because they generally handle the most routine and simple, by the book surgeries? (I ask because I get the impression you don’t have much experience with medical topics and medical schools.)

I forget to ask you, Eddie, what years you were in medical school. As for me, I never attended as a student and I was never appointed to a medical school faculty. I was a university professor who at times taught short-course practicum’s and some labs. (So, technically, my status was more that of “Visiting Lecturer” with the medical school even though I had regular faculty status with the university in the College of Arts & Sciences.) Even so, I would call at least some of my observations “first-hand”, the standard that was your focus. However, I was never quite clear on the degree of your own first-hand observation.

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Eddie, how does this “Dr. Egnor” relate to evolutionary theory and usefulness? I could not find any “hits” on this thread when I looked for that name. Why/how is he/she relevant to the topic? Also, why would it matter whether or not @beaglelady has performed a particular number of brain surgeries?

I must admit that I am often confused at your “line of thought”. Perhaps I have missed important context from prior discussion of these matters???

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Also, Eddie, I did not see where you responded to my answers to your claims that the Theory of Evolution was not taught at medical schools. Are you denying what the various medical school professors I quoted are saying about the importance of evolution theory to their teaching of medical students?