Do we need faith in order to have morality/meaning/purpose in our lives and societies?

So you are asking how I live MY life. Well my first reaction is to say that it is none of your business how I live my life. But since you asked, I will tell you. In daily life I try to use reason combined with instinct combined with local laws and customs to go about my live. Of the three, Reason is the most important. Instinct is the basic rapid call to action like if I saw a child run into the street my first reaction is to help. A lot of what I do is instinctive, self protection, protections for my family and kids. Next are local laws, ordinances, customs, standard behavior. I pretty much conform to these, even those I may or may not agree with them. I’ll am polite and thoughtful and kind to all. That is pretty easy for me. The most important attribute that I use is reason. Reason trumps instinct and culture(laws). Reason is the collection of all my education and wisdom from all of life’s experiences. It my reasoning that I will act on independent of instinct or social customs.

Christy,
You are absolutely right that you don’t have to ditch all faith commitments to prove anything. The discussion is usually with yourself where you feel on such things. You know what the right answer is and you can just go with it. Free and clear.
Patrick

Why is hope important? Our only hope for what?

I could say I am a naturalist as well believing in the Christian God representing the perfection of nature with science as a tool to better understand the way that the logic embedded in the Universe controls its behaviour so I can operate within its rules and help others to do so too.
The sanctity of life is a philosophical issue as fundamental to humanity as it can get, so it is clearly an issue that one should be able to reason if one has a worldview and reasoning that is coherent. Assuming that we are both capable of reasoning, if we come to different conclusions either one of us is failing in the coherence of the reasoning or has different input parameters. Science is a good way to compare the coherence of reasoning and the validity of input parameters so the example of abortion is a perfect example to test the coherence of reasoning within a worldview on how a person believes reality to work. However what is perfectly reasonable does not mean that it is morally sound as your reasoning is based on value judgements that may not be born of the logos, e.g coherent with the logic that transcends existence, the “I am what I am” philosophy behind the Christian understanding of God. For example your action to destroy another human being is perfectly reasonable if you accept that the life of the human killing the victim has a higher value than the life of the victim, so feel free to make that argument from science

Only hope is for individual reasoning and collective reasoning to prevail.

Of course not. That is why my individual reasoning take priority in my life. And will fight for your right to your individual reasoning to take priority in your life. Very libertarian.

Why is hope important? why care? What would individual and collective reasoning prevail for? how would we know? And if we thought it did prevail, would it prevail to a good end or a sad end?

Every person has to figure out what they care for. Is it some combination of themselves, their family, their community, their nation, their world? Individual reasoning is important (paramount) as you need to “know thyself” first. Collective reasoning is important too. Collective reasoning can be a small group like a family. Or friends. It doesn’t have to be the whole country or whole planet to make value judgments.

You don’t know. You see what works, re-reason, try again.

What prevails? Why are you worrying about the end? Just live for today. Do the best you can. Seize the day.

It seems for you it is mere pragmatism that guides your reason. When you say, “see what works”, you give no parameters. For example, both retaliating against enemies, and giving in to them “work”, but have different endpoints. But they both work. Whether they work the way you want them to, depends on your value system. In other words, your values, philosophy, and beliefs (faith) determine whether they work or not the way you want them to work.

In the same way, “doing the best you can” is completely dependant on your philosophy and beliefs. Likewise with seizing the day. So example, you have done your best to read a magazine as slowly as possible, to eat all your vitamins, make your bed, clean your room, played your x-box. Great. you have done what you wanted… seized the day. Done your best at all these things. But have not worked for a wage, have not left the house, have not helped anyone, have not talked to anyone. Only your value system and your life philosophy can tell you whether you have done your best and seized the day.

Reason is empty and useless without the foundations of values and philosophy of life. In fact, reasoning itself will tell you this.

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If you start to worry about the end it would indicate that you worry about others, e.g. those coming after you. How foolish can you be :slight_smile:

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How am I suppose to know what works for you?

You got to figure this out for yourself.

You got to define the meaning and purpose of your life. Nobody else can do it for you.

Absolutely true. It is up to you to make an empty and useless life into one full of meaning and purpose. The universe has no purpose but you can. That is truly amazing. If you can’t help yourself, help somebody else. All you got is the rest of this life, make it wonderful or make someelse’s better.

Thankyou for recognizing that reason by itself cannot provide purpose. Your statement that the universe has no purpose is however only your parameter; it is a value that you have created to provide a basis for your philosophy and rational processes.

Your turn: what is the purpose of the universe?

The purpose of the universe is to glorify God. “And He saw that it was good.”

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"If you can’t help yourself, help somebody else. All you got is the rest of this life, make it wonderful or make someelse’s better."
your fundamental values are as I thought they would be, your self first - as all you have is the rest of your life. You try to write yourself out of existence already becoming more irrelevant by the minute.

How are my fundamental values different from your’s?

mine is to make it wonderful by making someone else’s better and that makes a substantial difference. It makes you particularly realise that you live in sin is you make your life better on the cost of the life of others.

What did you say was your stance on abortion?

Mine is the same.

I disagree. I don’t live in sin. I don;t live to make my life better at the expense of others. It is not a zero sum game. I work hard to make mine and my families lives better. I also try to help others who I don’t know to have a better life. And work to make the world a little better now so that my children’s children and your children’s children children have a better life.

My stance on abortion is very simple. The Government should not be interfering with any woman’s health and medical decisions.