Why would you be afraid of hell, if you did not believe in God?
Why would you be afraid of hell, if you did believe in God, and accept his grace and love?
That only leaves those who believe in God, yet reject his grace. In that case, being afraid of hell is a reasonable position.
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Which explains the success of the old “hell fire and brimstone” preachers quite well.
True, though I feel that scaring people to God is the wrong tactic, as you should be brought to God by love.
There is the argument that “being a Christian” to get to heaven (or avoid hell) is actually an idolatrous position, in that if you are doing it out of selfish motivation, you missed the point. Thus, we should love God regardless of whether there is a heaven or hell. Interestingly, that sort of is the old testament position, as their concept of heaven and hell was not well formed. Also the lesson of Job: that God is worthy of worship, no matter what our personal circumstance.
Because God’s ways are not well understood?
Matt. 25:41 “Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. 42 For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, 43 I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.’ 44 “They also will answer, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?’ 45 “He will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.’ 46 “Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.”
So, it appears some people will be surprised by the eternal punishment that awaits them. There is another passage, where Jesus tells those who did miracles in his name that he never knew them.
It’s not uncommon for Christians (especially those with anxiety issues) to suffer from the fear of Hell. It’s not like God is clearly stating who is in and who is out.
As to the Bible teachings on hell, here is a Christian apologetic site discussing Hell
But how do you know this God is a God of love?
If God is not a God of love and mercy, we’re all done for anyway.
Sorry to potentially heap on fear, but there doesn’t seem to be much middle ground with any warrant for belief. Either God is as advertised, meaning he is trustworthy to exercise better judgment and love than any of us could even imagine, or else the whole of Christianity is completely off base, in which case why worry about any of this at all?
Yes – we do fear God’s good and holy judgment because we know how we each are personally. But as I see it, my kids are not perfect as I have pointed out to them as a disciplining parent; yet I would never ever subject them to never-ending torture no matter what they did. There is no commensurate action to warrant such imagined punishment within the scope of our God-given justice-sensitivities – making any such hell-fire God less righteous than most any of us. But that is a highly non-biblical contradiction causing the whole conjecture to collapse in on itself. God is eager that we should see and praise him as a righteous God, not as a God that expects people to be singing praises while casting sidelong glances at their former friends and relatives being tortured next door. If we, wicked as we are, are yet given towards merciful sentiments wherever they can be shared, how much more so the God we worship?
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As an atheist, I feel I am accountable to my friends, family, and community. I would suspect that the vast majority of Christians would continue to behave morally and compassionately even if they left the faith and no longer believed in Heaven/Hell. I could be completely wrong, but I have always believed that humans act morally primarily because of our human ties, not our religious beliefs. I just don’t see people refraining from committing murder just because it will send them to Hell. They don’t commit murder because they don’t want other humans to feel emotional pain and loss.[quote=“Relates, post:20, topic:36466”]
Of course non-believers fear that God will send them and others to Hell for unjust reasons.
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Speaking for myself, I fear Hell about as much as I fear coal in my Christmas stocking.
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Ultimately, that is not that much different than why Christians do not murder. We are to love our neighbor as ourselves, not blindly follow rules. That too is why with the craziness of the past week on the US news front, we do not support positions that cause pain to our brothers and sisters, not because of rules or because of fear of shaming, but because we love them, and do not wish to cause them pain.
Perhaps I am in danger of self flagellation if I venture too far into the political realm, so will leave it at that.
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I cringe when I hear fellow believers speak of atheists as not having any conscience. I find that atheists are as concerned with morality as I am.
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I suggest that such a statement is a part of your religion. And a fine religion it is. The atheism seems to be a more-or-less irrelevant tack-on, just as you might suggest that our theism is also irrelevant toward kind behavior. But for many Christians, their positive beliefs call them toward higher aspirations in these directions than they might otherwise muster.
@T_aquaticus[quote=“T_aquaticus, post:28, topic:36466”]
As an atheist, I feel I am accountable to my friends, family, and community.
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That is OK if your peers are compassionate, but what if they are not. What if your peers are Nazis, as it appears are the friends of the young man who used his car to kill in Charlottesville, or Jihadis who also murder. or those who commit honor killings?
As I said the best motivation is love which motivates people to help others, not to harm them. People who love will seek to associate and motivate (and be motivated by) others who are like minded, which is why we have the Church. If the primary reason why atheists do not kill others is because they fear punishment from the law, or disapproval of their peers, or feelings of guilt, then their motivation is basically the same as fear of Hell, fear of punishment of one kind or another.
True Christians act out of love, even if it means to stand against those in their own community, who are wrong, as did Martin Luther, and Civil and Human Rights activists.
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If Santa doesn’t exist, Christmas stops being fun. Is this a good argument for Santa?
How do you know what God is/is not like? Everything about God is an imagination of ancient humans, unless you have a personal revelation that you believe was from God himself, at which point, I would be curious how you distinguish between genuine and imaginary revelation.
This was about a fear of hell. That you are trying to turn it into an argument for God’s existence is non-sequitur.
By reading of personal testimonies and of Christ himself in the Bible --the same information available to you.
Using all the tools God has made available to me individually, and more importantly to us as a community of believers. Those tools include, but are not necessarily limited to: observation, listening and interacting with people, reading --especially bible study, science, personal experience, spiritual sensitivities --both individually, but more importantly as vetted through a community of believers, trust, faith, hope, love; and of course rationality such as what can be mustered to help tie much of this together. Even with all of this, it doesn’t guarantee I’m right about everything, but it is the best I can do, and it is what God has given me to work with.
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As the old saying goes, if atheism is a religion then bald is a hair color. 
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What if those peers claim that they are following the commands of their God in doing so?[quote=“Relates, post:32, topic:36466”]
As I said the best motivation is love which motivates people to help others, not to harm them. People who love will seek to associate and motivate (and be motivated by) others who are like minded, which is why we have the Church. If the primary reason why atheists do not kill others is because they fear punishment from the law, or disapproval of their peers, or feelings of guilt, then their motivation is basically the same as fear of Hell, fear of punishment of one kind or another.
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That relates to what I was saying earlier. You don’t need the threat of Hell or threat of judgement by a supreme being in order to be a moral person.
I think the most that one could say is that atheism is an outlook on religion–that no gods, etc. exist. I wouldn’t call it an actual religion.
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But, but … on forms that ask “Hair Color,” I always put down “flesh.” Is that not allowed?
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Atheism doesn’t even require the belief that no gods exist, only a lack of belief in the existence of gods. It is the same as saying that there isn’t enough evidence to convict someone of murder. That position does not require you to also believe that the defendant did not commit the murder.
If there is a broadly consistent atheistic outlook it is one of general skepticism.
There are different degrees of atheism.
Did you hear about the militant agnostic bumper sticker? “I don’t know and neither do you!”
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I agree that atheism is not a religion. But there are atheist movements that have some of the trappings of a religion. A recent one went by the name (denomination) “Atheism Plus”. The plus was a concern for social justice, which is certainly laudable, but the dogma was that a concern for social justice was a natural consequence for anyone who thought seriously about their atheism. It’s not. There even developed a pejorative term for those atheists who were not enlightened–they were dubbed dictionary atheists. A sort of “no true atheist” mentality ensued. Atheists rightly complain when theists argue that they can’t really be moral. The Atheist-plussers reversed this and, in effect, argued that all true atheists are moral as a consequence of their atheism, as long as they really consider why they are atheist. An immoral atheist must be at best a dictionary atheist. That starts to look a bit like a religion–a kind of gnosticism.
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