There is no answer for any of that. Only guesses. When I see my loved ones will they be 50? 79? 25? Is there a sleep then a resurrection? Does time flow differently? No idea. A mother reuniting with her long lost child, will the child be a baby in heaven for eternity?
We have millions of pages of theology and guesses on the end and life after death and no one probably knows a darned thing with any certainty. We have the hope of eternal life because we believe Jesus conquered death and his death mediates our salvation. Did it mediate salvation before the Cross? I’m not a fan of penal substitution type models so Indont fee obliged to imagine forgiveness happened before it in light of it. I subscribe more to solidarity models so the question is moot for me.
But in the end there are more questions than answers and I am certain that that the only certainty we know of is our lack of certainty. As an example of one who believes in Biblical accommodation I have no idea where Paul’s idea that we will judge angels comes from or if it’s true. Concordists would read it and think that it’s an accurate rendering of heaven as written. Maybe God revealed it to him or maybe it’s part of some general belief at the time. No idea for me.
When I think physical I think material… atoms, cells etc. Obviously this is not what our ancestors thought because they didn’t know about the inner workings of the human body or atomic structure. What do you have in mind for physical?
One doesn’t have to know about cells and atoms to know what is meant by physical.
I don’t have a special definition for the word.
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Klax
(The only thing that matters is faith expressed in love.)
24
Of course there is. There is the answer of rationality applied to the ‘minimal’ posit of transcendence.
(a) Biologically they won’t be old. Ageless. The dogs too.
(b) When? After humanity is extinct? That would take care of there being no Jesus in Earth’s infinitesimal corner of Heaven before 1991 years ago for hundreds of thousands of years.
(c) Then it wouldn’t be time. And it does subjectively anyway.
(d) What would be the point of that? Will all the miscarried, natural and deliberate be resurrected? As what? What will women who died pregnant and the embryos-foetuses come up as? The anencephalic born?
These questions will all be answered in the twinkling of an eye: it will all make sense. All work. Like the beautiful beach scene at the end of The Tree of Life.
It is a PLAIN FACT, that words have multiple meanings. And “physical” is certainly no exception.
There is the meaning of the word in most common language phrases like “physical therapy” and “physical exercise” which means bodily, and there is the meaning of the word in science such in phrases like “physical laws” which has nothing whatsoever to do with the human body but is about the laws of nature. THUS we have the different translations of the word Paul uses in 1 Corinthians 15 as either “natural” or “physical” when Paul explains that the resurrection is NOT physical/natural but spiritual while at the same time He is also clear and adamant that the resurrection is a bodily resurrection. Thus we have both uses of the word at the same time, with Paul saying the resurrection is physical/bodily but not physical/natural.
The age we are has an influence on who or at least how we are as that relates to our development. It influences the relationships we’ve been in and the roles those entail. If we’re ageless are we fully developed or somehow just age neutral? If we subtract our age, relationships and roles what is there left to differentiate between us? Maybe there is something but I begin to wonder how recognizably human we would be.
@SkovandOfMitaze I think it could be physical or spiritual. I’ve always thought it was physical, but I don’t think it’s just physical and that’s likely not the most important aspect of it. After all, where would Christ go with his physical body while the heavens and the earth are still in the process of renewal? Physically, the Body of Christ is the church here and now. And I can’t even begin to grasp the spiritual aspect of it.
This was one of our theology classes at St. Thomas, 5th Avenue, part of a whole series on First Corinthians. It’s from 2020, when church was in lockdown, and is taught on zoom. (Since opening back up we have hybrid classes, available both live and zoom)
The presenter, the Rev. Dr. Patrick Cheng, was our theologian-in-residence at the time. He’s absolutely brilliant, has a law degree, speaks many languages, knows Biblical Greek and Hebrew. But he’s also very kind and easy to follow.
Lots of good stuff in this lecture!
Klax
(The only thing that matters is faith expressed in love.)
29
I agree absolutely. But no one’s coming up senescent, injured, damaged by age or genetics. By experience, yes. If it needs to be deconstructed. If it can be. Otherwise it’ll have to be twinkled. There will be no psychopathy. No disordered passions. Just the memory of them. We won’t be that human, that neotenously larval any more. No sex. We’ll be true imagos. And we’ll be knee deep in babies.
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Klax
(The only thing that matters is faith expressed in love.)
30
In general, I’m not crazy about videos being posted because reading is so much faster, but being dismissive of its content for no good reason otherwise is at best motivated reasoning.
This was a theology class about 1 Corinthians 15. The Greek was taught alongside the English. It was important to hear how the Koine Greek is pronounced. .And Fr Cheng mentioned that the libretto of Handel’s Messiah included passages from 1 Corinthians 15, and then he played excerpts from a recording. (But the recording wasn’t very clear, truth be told.)
Klax
(The only thing that matters is faith expressed in love.)
35
Why not? That’s exactly what it was whatever else it was in Jesus’ case. And Jairus’ daughter’s. And Lazarus’. And the widow of Nain’s son’s first off.
Maybe there was reanimation of a corpse in the case of people like Lazarus. But the resurrection of Jesus and of all believers at the end of the age is so much more.
Klax
(The only thing that matters is faith expressed in love.)
37
Maybe so, but it’s not not. Especially in Jesus’ unique case. When’s the end of the age?
The last two comments have been things I’ve always wondered as well. I’ve also wondered if it is physical then I wonder will race always be around then, and will deformities still exist like the wounds of Jesus that was not healed after resurrection to on and so on. It all goes beyond what I think we will know until we all know. If we ever all know. Such as will restoration , if it’s not already occur, eventually happen and then all life ceases except for new life and so on.
Good points. After Lazarus came back to life he had to die again because he still had mortal flesh. But at the resurrection we are transformed. Read 1 Cor 15 and listen to the lecture.
One important thing to remember is that we think of the soul now as completely non-physical. But in Biblical times, the human body was thought to be physical (as it is now), but the soul and spirit were also physical in some way. Body, soul, and spirit were on a physical continuum.